Re-balance Assault Shuttles

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Atlanton
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by Atlanton » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:29 pm

Perhaps making assault cruisers themselves more vulnerable and making the assault ships more vulnerable when they're attached to their mothership.

I forget how many missiles they can take now, but it seems like missiles should be the best PD counter to assault ships, particularly considering advanced assault ships have a small turret. If assault shuttles go down to 1 or 2 missiles (either on or off their mothership), it will either require the attacker to use dedicated PD ships to defend the assault shuttles or to upgrade to the advanced assault ships.

rexx1888
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by rexx1888 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:02 am

hiya's :) been watching this thread for a while now, gonna poke my 2 cents in :p

assault shuttles to me represent some very old school thinking about war. Generally, if you take Iraq as a good base example, opposing militaries bomb the target first to soften up their ability to repulse invaders, and then follow up with invading forces. Invading forces however might get the job done in record time, but still have to dig out entrenched forces. the reason assault shuttles are so OP is because we as invading players dont need to soften up the planet before we drop troops. Assaulting a planet with ships should be a long and arduous effort, but it should also come with the bonus of lower ch damage and lower infrastructure damage. It should also come with the advantage(or disadvantage) of leaving civilian population alive. These are good things, and if you colonized a planet with all this stuff it would make the trade off of 2 or 3 turns worth it. Which is another point, glassing a planet in one turn shouldnt be viable with one fleet. Maybe 2, but not one. Its daft, this is a planet with anywhere between millions to billions of people on it. It takes an extinction level event like slamming an asteroid into our planet to kill that many people. And even then, that will take years to actually kill everyone as the dust and cloud has to kill all the plants etc. Point is, glassing in one turn shouldnt be as easy as firing a bio missile or launching a single assault fleet, even if the turn is supposed to be a quarter of a year(and i have a serious problem with the notion that a battle represented by real time assets should somehow be considered abstracted, thats just some odd thinking there, but not the point of this thread).

my point is, assault shuttles should be nerfed, but they should also have the bonuses they are supposed to have. They represent a choice by the player to take the harder path for the most gain. A mass driver or bio missile renders a planet more difficult to colonize(either through mass destruction or the need for a cure to the plague) while assault shuttles should take longer and more effort. in addition to this planets need a better way to repulse shuttles. There is not the slightest chance that in a shuttle drop you wouldnt lose a few whether from pilot error or else opposing military, but some shuttles should be lost(as opposed to our current situation where some dont even get hurt). however, it seems to me this balancing cant really take place until ch damage is incorporated into the game, otherwise it would just create the same problem except siege drivers would suddenly be OP etc etc
Regards,

Rexx

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Mecron
Kerberos
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by Mecron » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:17 am

interesting post but you are being a little literal about your one fight and one assault shuttle ;)

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ProjectLevyDelta
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by ProjectLevyDelta » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:44 am

We could all say the same thing about Boarding pods. While weaker, you can still mass boarding cruisers and theoretically take over your enemies entire fleet with no losses :lol:

On the other note you could also just make missile cruisers and set them to PD (something the Ai doesn't do)
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Ishantil
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by Ishantil » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:46 pm

I use missile PD to great effect against swarms, drones, and riders.
Ishantil
"You're going to be involved, you might as well have the big guns" --Quell

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Hawawaa
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by Hawawaa » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:10 pm

Try some multiplayer games when you get a chance and then try out some assault shuttle runs. AI isn't a fully operation battlestation yet. Ask Resok to slap you around in multi. :lol:

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Resok
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by Resok » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:30 pm

Hawawaa wrote:Try some multiplayer games when you get a chance and then try out some assault shuttle runs. AI isn't a fully operation battlestation yet. Ask Resok to slap you around in multi. :lol:


lol - I'm available most evenings if anyone is interested :) Don't listen to Hawawaa... I don't slap *that* hard.
- Resok

dast
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by dast » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:44 am

back to topic and mp in one post:

sunday and yesterday i had again some experiences:

Assault shuttle fleet with cloaking capable carriers and heavy shuttles with laser pd ...

3 Attacks:
1 lost colony (2 min)
1 lost homeworld because only 2 sectors from start point away (4 min)
1 attack runs out of time because world was to far away

i tried cloak but it did not work (just turns ships green and not defending - nothing else)


so currently it comes down to:
in range - world is annihilated
out of range - you might have a chance of destroying the carriers

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Tarrak
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by Tarrak » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:15 pm

I know I have been on the 'raaar Assault Shuttles raaarrr' side here, but I have come to understand that so far Kerb has pretty much done everything I have wanted. Yes, not exactly as I have asked for, but the end result has been the same. I believe the same will happen here.
Every time you use 'fluff' for lore a Kerberos developer dies. And they are already an endangered species.

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ProjectLevyDelta
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by ProjectLevyDelta » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:29 pm

dast wrote:back to topic and mp in one post:

sunday and yesterday i had again some experiences:

Assault shuttle fleet with cloaking capable carriers and heavy shuttles with laser pd ...

3 Attacks:
1 lost colony (2 min)
1 lost homeworld because only 2 sectors from start point away (4 min)
1 attack runs out of time because world was to far away

i tried cloak but it did not work (just turns ships green and not defending - nothing else)


so currently it comes down to:
in range - world is annihilated
out of range - you might have a chance of destroying the carriers


Cloaking does work.. You need improve cloaking if you want your ships to fire while cloaked :roll:

I believe planets may have an ability to see cloaked vessels if you are close enough to it. Something they had in SotS 1 when their was no defending ships in the system. :awesome:
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dast
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by dast » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:56 am

ProjectLevyDelta wrote:
Cloaking does work.. You need improve cloaking if you want your ships to fire while cloaked :roll:

I believe planets may have an ability to see cloaked vessels if you are close enough to it. Something they had in SotS 1 when their was no defending ships in the system. :awesome:


It works for you? So what are the effects beside turning your ships green?
In my games my enemies can see, target and destroy my green ships.

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Goomich
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Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by Goomich » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:21 am

Maybe they have better sensors or psionics?

dast
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by dast » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:46 pm

Goomich wrote:Maybe they have better sensors or psionics?


sorry no ... on the remote computer even the pd of the "cloaked" ship fires
see: http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=35225

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Mecron
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by Mecron » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:46 pm

bug and fixed in next update

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Re-balance Assault Shuttles

Post by BlueTemplar » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:41 pm

Necropost!!

So, I've noticed too that Assault Shuttles seemed to be way too effective (that was about 6 months ago). But nowadays people are complaining on chat that Assault Shuttles barely do any damage (ok, compared with fusion missiles, which are pretty good at killing pop, but still, something is amiss...).

I've checked, and Assault Shuttle pop damage hasn't changed since at least November 2012 : It's still at 4M. Now, I suppose that was per second, over X seconds of a shuttle run. (In prime they did 0.8M per second over 62 seconds) Maybe there was a "stealth" update recently that changed it to 4M per run?

P.S.: There's another thread about that :
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=34778

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