Naval Station at indy colonies

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Nall White
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Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Nall White » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:18 am

Please enable building naval station at your indy colonies.
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Karu
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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Karu » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:48 pm

Navy stations claim systems.
Neutrals allready own that system.

Would be a bad idea tbh.


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Terramort
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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Terramort » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:36 pm

Yes... just like how in real life, naval stations claim territory, so the U.S. couldn't have any bases in foreign countries. Nope, that couldn't ever realistically happen, building a naval base in your less-technology-advanced ally's territory...

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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Nall White » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:00 am

"In a universe where weakness is...." Don't see any reason that an indy colony started from stimulus wouldn't want or even demand protection. The empire has an incentive to keep them safe due to the trade treaty and the eventual absorption. Also, morale in the empire. Maybe, the lack of protection could be a factor in colony stimulus? Oh and Team America has bases in numerous countries.
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Karu
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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Karu » Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:38 pm

Nall White wrote:"In a universe where weakness is...." Don't see any reason that an indy colony started from stimulus wouldn't want or even demand protection. The empire has an incentive to keep them safe due to the trade treaty and the eventual absorption. Also, morale in the empire. Maybe, the lack of protection could be a factor in colony stimulus? Oh and Team America has bases in numerous countries.


Why would they? o.O
They are independent - on the same technologie level then your empire.
And because you want to trade with them and absorb them you pretect them - that does not mean that they want to get absorbed.
Also, all navy stations are build after a diplomatic solution - in game and in real life.
Sometimes the station right get revoked - but are still used against the will of the nation (Quan Tanamo is a prime example).

Sure "team america" also tramples human rights, treaties, don't even tell their people who they are in war with (al'kaida and 'affilates' - where affilates were denyed by congress to get told), spying on allys and so on.
Maybe don't use america as a prime example. It's a can of worms to the rest of the world.


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Terramort
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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Terramort » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:14 pm

Last time I checked, everything pretty specifically says the indi colonies are not nearly advanced as your empire - besides, what are they going to do about it, anyway? Earth is near or a little below some of the more advanced indi colonies. One day, a small scout force of Morrigi arrive, bringing profits and exotic alien goods. After a few years of this, the Morrigi ask to set up a Naval Station, as they are worried about interstellar threats with recent turns of events. Really? You think all creatures except humans are dumb enough to turn down help - and besides, what would we do if they did start building a Naval Station? Shoot our (probably retired) ICBMs at them so the space-faring Morrigi that bring down profits can then bring down fire?

On another level, this would be like the French being unable to build forts among the Indians, just because... they, uh, can't, during the American-Indian war.

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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Resok » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:31 pm

You *can* build naval stations at Independent Race Colonies. However you CANNOT build stations at Stimulus Built Indy Colonies (of yours or anyone else's race).

I'm sure this is because they want to be well... independent. Allowing a full on military base when they want to remain a separate and autonomous entity from the main empire makes sense.
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Nall White
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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Nall White » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:45 am

Resok wrote:You *can* build naval stations at Independent Race Colonies. However you CANNOT build stations at Stimulus Built Indy Colonies (of yours or anyone else's race).

I'm sure this is because they want to be well... independent. Allowing a full on military base when they want to remain a separate and autonomous entity from the main empire makes sense.

Or allow the building of stations and the empire has to pay various diplomatic costs. Maybe in the future Indies could build ships and attack it. Or, drop the trade treaty until its gone.
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Pavane
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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Pavane » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:06 pm

Resok wrote:You *can* build naval stations at Independent Race Colonies. However you CANNOT build stations at Stimulus Built Indy Colonies (of yours or anyone else's race).

I'm sure this is because they want to be well... independent. Allowing a full on military base when they want to remain a separate and autonomous entity from the main empire makes sense.

Just to qualify that slightly, you can build bases in stimulus systems after you colonise one of the other planets in that system. Both your colony and the Stim-Indy world will produce goods to be transported via your Waystation (perhaps requiring a trade agreement).
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Mecron
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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Mecron » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:23 am

Terra, leave the sarcasm to the professionals.

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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Terramort » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:56 pm

Mecron wrote:Terra, leave the sarcasm to the professionals.


I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being entirely serious. The United States has numerous Naval Bases overseas, in foreign countries that have less naval strength. Sarcasm is saying something, but NOT meaning it.

Also, I'm not stupid. I can grasp "we don't want to add x to the game, because it will unbalance t, y, and z, totally defeating the whole point of the game." Or any other argument that makes sense, for that matter. I seriously regret purchasing SotS II now. Ever since joining the site, and asking politely WHY a game had been released so early, I have felt like you developers think all players are stupid, have no valuable input, and don't ever think things out. (Let me rephrase - you, Mecron, seem to think this of players. I haven't seen any other developer comments so disparaging or as heartlessly cutting as yours tend to be.) Even when *every* player in a thread disagrees with you/the game about something, you claim "they" must be stupid and have the problem, rather than explaining or trying to get to the root of things.

Now, I would like to try again. In real life, many countries have, over the years, built naval forts in lesser developed countries for defense. Seeing as the AI in Sword of the Stars II has some sort of extermination agenda against indie colonies, and given the sheer scope of possible disasters to befall a planet, I think the ability to build Naval Stations around indie colonies not makes sense, but is the logical conclusion of having your lesser developed allies wiped out.

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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Ryat » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:13 pm

Terramort wrote:Yes... just like how in real life, naval stations claim territory, so the U.S. couldn't have any bases in foreign countries. Nope, that couldn't ever realistically happen, building a naval base in your less-technology-advanced ally's territory...


Terramort wrote:
Mecron wrote:Terra, leave the sarcasm to the professionals.


I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being entirely serious. The United States has numerous Naval Bases overseas, in foreign countries that have less naval strength. Sarcasm is saying something, but NOT meaning it.

That kind of looks like sarcasm to me. But then again what do I know.
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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Resok » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:14 pm

Terramort wrote:I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being entirely serious. The United States has numerous Naval Bases overseas, in foreign countries that have less naval strength. Sarcasm is saying something, but NOT meaning it.


Your earlier statement was very clearly sarcastic. You phrased the facts in a contrary way - using the negative context to emphasize your point. X *clearly* isn't the way things work in real life (when they do in fact).

As far as all of the other random frustration you've expressed - there's a better way to go about it.

There's a way to approach things calmly, and rationally - there's nothing to be gained from what amounts to throwing a non-relevant to the discussion tantrum on a suggestions forum that the devs DO read and respond to quite often. They've implemented suggestions from players in the past and I'm sure they will continue to do so in the future. This is possibly the most directly engaged forum community that I've been a part of, and it's a unique privilege that isn't very common. The trade off is that we as players don't run around screaming and yelling and stomping our feet and instead engage in civil, polite discussion instead of the typical bile you see on most internet forums. It's a good trade off in my book...

It's been said time and time again that they legally *cannot* divulge the full details regarding the launch fiasco. Contracts and such often will include limits on communications about interactions between the Publisher and Developer. In fact what we *HAVE* heard from them is far more than most companies would ever divulge outside of political, sanitized press releases.

Where did Mecron even suggest that you personally are stupid in this thread or are you getting defensive about a jab at your sarcasm not being useful to this discussion? Mecron doesn't owe us some in depth dissection of game mechanics about why they can or can't add every little thing suggested. In fact the responses we often do get on suggestions is more than most companies provide to a suggestion forum. These forums are read, and things that they have time for (all current SOTS2 work is being done with zero compensation to the dev team), and fit well with the game are often implemented.
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Terramort
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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by Terramort » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:03 am

Maybe if Mecron had said, "Terra, leave the sarcasm to the professionals. We don't want to add the ability to build Naval Stations to defend colonies because [whateverreason]," I would understand. I was trying to show a point - after re-reading, yes, I was sarcastic (misreading my own posts and defending myself... shameful...) and I apologize. It wasn't meant to be sarcasm, but more of a "but... that stuff really does exist!"

Also, I participate in more than just this forum, and by a very, very long shot, is this the least pleasant place to post. As member of the dev team for Pixelmon, and a very active tester of StarMade and an avid poster in SCP: Containment Breach, I can tell you 100% that this is the least receptive place for suggestions I regularly visit (to be fair, Pixelmon isn't far behind, but that's why I volunteered to help implement and organize players' suggestions). It isn't that suggestions go unanswered - I see that regularly, and it's not a bad thing. It's the cutting remarks that don't need to be said at all that really hurt these forums.

"Terra, leave the sarcasm to the professionals." How is that helping the conversation? Yes, I was sarcastic. However, it was with a point, not a senseless put down of others. I understand the workers on SotS II get no compensation for their work - which is why it's far, far more important than normal to have good forums, where players can feel welcome and freely discuss ideas (See - MineCraft, StarMade, SCP, and numerous, numerous mods for said games). I know how it feels to work on a game for free, I do it almost daily. So rather than tell players to essentially tick off and "leave the sarcasm to the professionals," wouldn't it be better to explain why x can't be implemented, ending the discussion once and for all? I would love to see Dreadnoughts get shields, but you don't see me begging for them and arguing for them or starting threads for them, as I understand that in the SotS universe, the inverse cube law won't allow for such physics. (Which is also how Mecron implied I'm stupid - when I ask a question, and the response is basically "No because I said no, now be quiet and quit backtalking, only I'm allowed to backtalk", it's pretty degrading

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Re: Naval Station at indy colonies

Post by ForceUser » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:57 am

The 'it works in real life so it has to be implemented in game' argument has come up so many times you will not believe. It is a futile and silly argument. Do no use it. This is a game about Space ships, aliens, unrealistic technology and all kinds of sci-fi shenanigans and that's just the lore part. There is also the whole gameplay side of it as well. Trying to use 'real life' as an argument is not recomended.

Suggestions are highly valued by the devs as they have said multiple times. Arguing with the devs though when they do not feel your pet suggestion will fit into the game is silly. This is their game afterall. Throwing a tantrum if you don't get your way is never any good regardless of where you are.
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