The Black vs. the Suul'ka

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Querente
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Querente » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:50 pm

You think fighting a dozen Suulka doesnt cost much energy, or atleast not enough to replenish through regeneration?

All energy needs to come from somewhere and a Great Elder is more then just big. You forget to fight the suulka he needs a lot of reserves. That has to come from somewhere. Great Elders do not move, they are not active. I wouldnt be surprised if they faux-hibernate their bodies normally and keep their minds half asleep (which is still enough to play and teach their young ones) as not to eat their planet empty of all other life.

I think some people are forgetting the SCALE. The Great Elders are not just big fish, they are not big whales. They are a few kilometers long!! No other single living organism comes even close to that size. And the increased energy cost to move such a huge body? That isnt linear, the cost increase is cubic. Chemistry is a bitch.

Lets take the Cannibal, I will make the assumption that he gained that "nickname" cause he ate his own Liir people before leaving the planet to gain enough reserves to escape and still have plenty of left to travel in space. You think he ate a dozen? A hundred? An organism of that size has prolly eaten a few hundred thousands to completely fill his belly and reserves, if not a million Liir. And that was just one or two evening dinners for a fully active Great Elder.

I have a rather strong inkling that the destruction of their planet, was not just because of industrial pollution and stripmining, but also the destruction of their ecology through the hunger of a single Suulka Elder.

Torezu
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Torezu » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:06 pm

Querente wrote:You think fighting a dozen Suulka doesnt cost much energy, or atleast not enough to replenish through regeneration?

It's possible. It's never stated whether he fought them all even close to the same time. Space is big - it might have been possible to hide from the Suul'ka while regenerating. Also, when it became necessary to replenish psionic energy, it might have been possible to use non-sentient life if needed - there's no confirmation on that either, that I can find.

Querente wrote:I think some people are forgetting the SCALE. The Great Elders are not just big fish, they are not big whales. They are a few kilometers long!! No other single living organism comes even close to that size. And the increased energy cost to move such a huge body? That isnt linear, the cost increase is cubic. Chemistry is a bitch.

If they're a bit longer than an LV, they're much less than a few km long - more like 1-1.2 km. Regardless, movement energy in the ocean is related only to water resistance and propulsion efficiency. With a very streamlined body, movement energy would be limited to cross-sectional surface area and coefficient of friction in the water, when they needed to move at all. Folding space might be a different story. For all we know, it could be cubic or something...higher-order. :D

Querente wrote:You think he ate a dozen? A hundred? An organism of that size has prolly eaten a few hundred thousands to completely fill his belly and reserves, if not a million Liir. And that was just one or two evening dinners for a fully active Great Elder.

Average adult Liir: ~4-5 cubic meters
"Average" Great Elder: ~40 million cubic meters (1000 x 200 x 200, give or take)
A full "meal" might be 100,000 at most if stomach capacity is 10% of body size, but I doubt it's that high, since there are bigger Liir around than just adult size and stomachs are probably smaller than that. That comment on a Great Elder remaining mostly dormant in late life to avoid massive ecosystem damage is probably spot on though.

Querente wrote:I have a rather strong inkling that the destruction of their planet, was not just because of industrial pollution and stripmining, but also the destruction of their ecology through the hunger of a single Suulka Elder.

This wouldn't surprise me.

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wingren013
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by wingren013 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:23 pm

Since the black is a bioweapon it is possible that he/she was modified to prevent sociopathy
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Golden Yak
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Golden Yak » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:41 pm

Bioweapon was the closest translation of what the Liir termed 'living weapon.' The Black was called this because he is alive.
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Sevain
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Sevain » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:15 pm

I don't think the Black is a weapon: he is the supreme commander of the Liir and the people in charge are rarely mere materiel. Why did the Liir say the Suul'ka were driven away by a bioweapon instead of him? Maybe they wanted to keep the whole "When we grow up we turn into evil omnicidal superbeings and have done so for the past bazillion years"-thing out of the way until they had gotten to know the other races well enough for that fact not to trigger an instant all out war. Or perhaps they hoped the Suul'ka would not return and the other races could be spared the knowledge of the horrors like the young Liir.

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Erinys
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Erinys » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:05 pm

You're mistaken, Sevain.

He is the weapon they were referring to. A very dangerous weapon indeed.

As to the logical and quite rational reasons for wanting to keep the true nature of the Suul'ka a secret--yes, these should go without saying.

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Sevain
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Sevain » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:35 pm

Interesting. A grunt who thinks himself a weapon is not that unusual, but when a leader does so... I think the Suul'ka are in for a rude awakening regarding their boast in the opening sequence.

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Erinys
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Erinys » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:14 am

Since he continues to exist only to end them--yes.

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Thamuzz
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Thamuzz » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:23 pm

Erinys wrote:Since he continues to exist only to end them--yes.

--Arinn


What will he do when that is done?

Jeep-Eep
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Jeep-Eep » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:58 pm

Thamuzz wrote:
Erinys wrote:Since he continues to exist only to end them--yes.

--Arinn


What will he do when that is done?

End himself.

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fibio
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by fibio » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:54 pm

Hopefully.
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Erinys
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Erinys » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:43 pm

Thamuzz wrote:What will he do when that is done?


Move on, with great joy, to the next Song.

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Madscientist
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Madscientist » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:13 am

My Liir expression dictionary isn't quite complete. Move on to the next Song... *ponders what that actually means*

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Kaan'Ish
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Kaan'Ish » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:19 am

I assume it's either a veiled reference to dying, given that the Liir seem to view the totality of existence as akin to a song, made up of the infinite voices of every single component of the universe (particularly complex and recognisable in the case of sapient life, perhaps). Under this viewpoint, death, and the unknown afterwards (if there is, indeed, such a thing) could be conceptualised as another 'song'. This would indicate a Liir belief in an afterlife of sorts (although I can't remember whether this has been touched on before by Erinys, it rings faint bells).

Alternatively, it could be as simple as finding a new purpose. Given that the Black's entire existence is now, and formost of his life has been, devoted to the destruction of the Winterminds, it could be said that he embodies a single song, that his whole being resonates with a single psychic refrain (and given the Liir equivalence of thought with speech, and of thought with song, the analogy seems a legitimate one). In this case, once the last Wintermind is gone, there is no need to sing such a lonely, sad, dark and angry song any more, his purpose will be fulfilled, leaving him free to find something else to do, to sing another song (or indeed, many songs) until the day he dies.

Personally I consider the first possibility more likely, given what we know of all other Liir Elders save the Winterminds. The Black simply has no need to live once his great task is finally done, and some compelling arguments not to do so.

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DarkCecilo
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by DarkCecilo » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:43 pm

Maybe a quicker aging process? Suul'ka seem to grasp onto life and go insane because they don't want to let go of their lives. If they were to force a Liir to grow quicker, maybe it wouldn't go insane if it understood what he was doing. Or maybe it is just because the Liir accepted the Black. Rather than denying him. Or trying to kill him.

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