The Black vs. the Suul'ka

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That Schmuck
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by That Schmuck » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:04 pm

It's totally a reference to dying. Afterlife, next life, whatever. He's reached what should be the end of a long and fruitful life, the only reason he's sticking around is because there's important work that need be done which cannot be passed off to others. Once that duty ends it's his responsibility to end, lest he become as corrupt and evil as the suul'ka he fought.

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Erinys
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Erinys » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:14 pm

Even if he was not concerned about becoming corrupt and evil, it would be nice to be born and be young and be new again. ;)

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Ryoku
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Ryoku » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:52 pm

ahh, so the Liir believe in reincarnation? Is their believe anything like Buddhists? Live a good live, come back on a higher level, live a bad and go down a level, or are you just reborn?

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Erinys
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Erinys » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:05 pm

Just re-born. They don't believe in continuity of identity, only conservation of energy. And they celebrate new things as well as respecting very old things; according to the Liir, the universe needs both.

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Tarrak
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Tarrak » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:40 pm

That Schmuck wrote:It's totally a reference to dying. Afterlife, next life, whatever. He's reached what should be the end of a long and fruitful life, the only reason he's sticking around is because there's important work that need be done which cannot be passed off to others. Once that duty ends it's his responsibility to end, lest he become as corrupt and evil as the suul'ka he fought.

In theory, couldn't Muur rise from the oceans to fight the Suul'ka? He (or she?) appears to be as powerful and big as any of them.
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The Apprentice
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by The Apprentice » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:22 pm

I think that is broadly correct- in that an elder who has taken the name of the Liir HW has the raw potential to leap to space if outfitted properly.

However, the mindset required to jump into space is something else entirely. That Suul'ka must feed off of vitalist forces to survive is morally abhorrent to most Liir. Like REALLY repugnant/pychopathic/serial killer aberration.

The Black is an unusual hybrid of sorts, who found the cost of remaining on Muur (and letting the Suul'ka rampage) to be greater than going to space and itself * becoming a vitalist consumer.

This is my working understanding (probably wrong on some points), but there is a reason the Liir are not elevating all their elders now that the technology for the space armor is more widespread.

*itself himself herself? Does anyone know what is the term for referring to Liir genderwise?

Edit: Spelling.
Last edited by The Apprentice on Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Iron Talon » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:30 pm

both himself and herself work, it'd depend on the individual Liir most likely. I play it safe and use 'Themselves'

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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Tarrak » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:41 pm

The Black has a male personality, but Muur I don't know about. Apparently gender is not just about bearing children, it is a philosophical stance. Liir are strange indeed.
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Naja » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:37 am

The Apprentice wrote:Is a reason the Liir are not elevating all their elders now that the technology for the space armor is more widespread. ?


Because it's not the space armor that makes Suul'Ka abominations. For starters, it's the fact that they have to vampirically leech off other sentients' life force in order to survive and recharge their powers.

But in a deeper sense, it's the underlying putting-myself-above-others mindset behind the need for immortality that makes a Wintermind what it is. This is especially the case for the Liir, who are naturally empathic due to their psionic abilities. A lack of empathy is unnatural. A deliberate choice to disregard empathy is evil beyond evil.

This is why the Liir use the word "Suul'Ka" to describe a general mindset, rather than just referring to their rogue Great Elders.

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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by The Apprentice » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:45 pm

Naja wrote:
The Apprentice wrote:Is a reason the Liir are not elevating all their elders now that the technology for the space armor is more widespread. ?


Because it's not the space armor that makes Suul'Ka abominations. For starters, it's the fact that they have to vampirically leech off other sentients' life force in order to survive and recharge their powers.

But in a deeper sense, it's the underlying putting-myself-above-others mindset behind the need for immortality that makes a Wintermind what it is. This is especially the case for the Liir, who are naturally empathic due to their psionic abilities. A lack of empathy is unnatural. A deliberate choice to disregard empathy is evil beyond evil.

This is why the Liir use the word "Suul'Ka" to describe a general mindset, rather than just referring to their rogue Great Elders.


Right, so it looks like we basically agree. That quote did not have a question mark. Feeding off of vitalist forces=vampirically consuming sentient life force. The addition of the empathy aspect is helpful though, so thanks.
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duty
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by duty » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:49 pm

If the Black (Liirian Batman) is resting to conserve resources, how does he replenish them when needed? Do the Black Swimmers make a conscious decision to feed and power their champion?

When the Black does go into battle, what is his preferred method of assault?
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Tarrak
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Tarrak » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:04 pm

It doesn't appear that risen Liir need to 'feed' to live on. Only in cases of physical damage. The Suul'ka appaer to do it because they like to for various reasons (for the sheer taste, for the immediate power, for punishment, for seeking out special individuals). But your question is quite valid as I don't think it is explained yet.

Also it is somewhat amusing to look back at my own posts. I asked why the Liir wouldn't uplift Muur to fight the Suul'ka, not knowing they already had! :lol:
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Erinys
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Erinys » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:15 am

duty wrote:If the Black (Liirian Batman) is resting to conserve resources, how does he replenish them when needed? Do the Black Swimmers make a conscious decision to feed and power their champion?

When the Black does go into battle, what is his preferred method of assault?


The Black feeds like any other Great Elder: he consumes life. Draining Psi and Life energy from living worlds, Fleets and his opponents in battle is a necessity to maintain fighting strength.

As to his tactics in the field: the Black has all of the traits you would expect from the greatest military leader in the history of his species. He has powerful defensive abilities, including Block and Reflection, and his coercive and empathic abilities are also significant. He inspires his own troops, and inspires terror in his enemies. He is also very good at restraining his foes with the Hold ability, which has allowed him to attack several weaker Suul'ka and destroy them.

He held them helpless, unable to fight back, while he battered their armor, carved away their defenses and siphoned away their energies. Eventually they were too weak even to hold position, and he could drag them into a gravity well to die.

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JPThunda
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by JPThunda » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:16 am

I always thought the Liir were evil, so maybe this is just my paranoia coming through, but I don't think The Black is this 'great savior' he's supposed to be. Looking at history, every time one of the elders goes Suul'ka he controls the entire species/planetary population to do it. What if The Black is doing that this time, and manipulating the Liir into thinking he's the good guy coming to save them from their old evil elders. What if this is all a power play so he can be the last man standing, king of the hill, the head honcho? I think it's possible he's just another Suul'ka and his obsession is being the universe, becoming the black sea, removing all opposition and becoming so powerful through manipulation of the 'lower' races that his thoughts and his darkness expands throughout the universe. :evil:

But I could just be paranoid about the evil fish people that perform unspeakable acts 'for your own good', who knows? ;)

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Tarrak
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Re: The Black vs. the Suul'ka

Post by Tarrak » Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:56 pm

Erinys wrote:The Black feeds like any other Great Elder: he consumes life. Draining Psi and Life energy from living worlds, Fleets and his opponents in battle is a necessity to maintain fighting strength.

Oh boy... That doesn't bode well.
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