Liir starships

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Will the Great
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Liir starships

Post by Will the Great » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:12 am

We don't have a(n unlocked) thread for Liir yet, so I guess this just goes out here in the open.

Are Liir starships partially organic? The way their engine...tails bend and flex looks too fluid and smooth to be accomplished by a purely mechanical construct. If they are purely mechanical, what the hell are those things made of?

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DevilDude
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Re: Liir starships

Post by DevilDude » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:38 pm

I kinda doubt it, while the liir are masters of Biotech I'd guess that they're not that advanced. Not to mention that the features you're talking about are indicative of soft tissue which isn't at all suitable for vacuum. TBH the whole idea of organic technology is kind of silly in the context of spacecraft. If anything, I would expect highly advanced star faring races to develop inorganic tech that mimics certain properties of living beings. I.E. the self-replicating Von Neumann machines or something like the Shadow Cruisers and vorlon ships from B5 which while ostensibly organic didn't appear to even be carbon based life forms, and may well have just been machines so complex as to mimic the properties of life.

Where the Liir are concerned I'd guess it's just aesthetic choice on the part of their ship writes and architects. Being aquatic they think aquatic, and make things that would fit in an aquatic environment.

I wouldn't put it past any of the races to have developed biological based technology though, life support using engineered life forms springs to mind, possibly some sort of Biocomputing or bio interface system. I just find it unlikely that they'd 'grow' ships; such constructions would be fragile and very susceptible to pretty much anything you could think to throw at it.
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Formid
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Re: Liir starships

Post by Formid » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:55 pm

I don't find it to be such a huge stretch that some sort of engineered tissue could withstand vacuum well enough to keep the rest of the stuff insulated. See: tardigrades. But yeah pretty sure the Liir don't have organic ships, and a completely organic ship in general seems unnecessary to me.

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Re: Liir starships

Post by Anaris » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:41 pm

the Liir are technologically advanced enough and then some for those to be metamaterials or odd nanoscale carbon constructions.
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Will the Great
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Re: Liir starships

Post by Will the Great » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:15 pm

DevilDude wrote: I just find it unlikely that they'd 'grow' ships; such constructions would be fragile and very susceptible to pretty much anything you could think to throw at it.


...kind of like how Liir ships fall apart under fire?

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Re: Liir starships

Post by Anaris » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:25 pm

i think Liir ships are fragile partly because they're full of liquid, which is at a greater pressure than the atmosphere on a human ship; the skin is already stretched to capacity keeping the whole thing together.
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Re: Liir starships

Post by nighthaunt » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:34 pm

The undersides of Liir vessels with the immersion pack look like living tissue and glisten - really doe's look like biotech to me :twisted:
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Re: Liir starships

Post by Anaris » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:40 pm

the main problem with that is what "organic" means in this context; a structure made from cells is going to have a lot of problems to overcome, like the pressure differential, the temperature and things like radiation resistance. individual cells have to be able to independently resist the rigours of space travel, and reproduce (since individual units would be individually weak) properly, without mutation. in short, it's probably just not really as practical as nearly any other method.

the Liir are, i believe, experts in biotechnology partly because of their ability to telekinetically interface with things on the microscopic scale; this would lend itself well to material science as well, and in some cases the two are interlinked, using bacteria to grow carbon nanotubes, for example.
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DevilDude
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Re: Liir starships

Post by DevilDude » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:23 am

Will the Great wrote:
DevilDude wrote: I just find it unlikely that they'd 'grow' ships; such constructions would be fragile and very susceptible to pretty much anything you could think to throw at it.


...kind of like how Liir ships fall apart under fire?

as in unable to withstand cosmic rays, I'm not convinced any cellular construct above a bacterial colony can survive vacuum and only then because the outer layer dies off and forms a hard shell to protect the rest.

Basically as Anaris pointed out, any complex multicellular construct that we would recognize as living would need to be shielded from the harsh environment of space somehow. It's easier just to build an inorganic construct and maybe use some organic interior components if and only if they're somehow more efficient or effective at their task. If you did manage to make a bioship without bolting anything onto it, it'd either look like a coral reef turned inside out, or a giant lobster. I could maybe see growing a ship somewhat like a bonsai that way, but at that point you're going to find yourself easily outpaced by production line mass manufacturing techniques. Not to mention quality control on 'grown' components would make for a whole new kind of hell for your inspectors.
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Re: Liir starships

Post by Brogatar » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:47 pm

Think what happens if ya organic ship gets Alzheimer's or the cold or flu.

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Re: Liir starships

Post by levi_Will » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:25 am

Thing is, I think the organics in space kinda works, where the liir are concerned. Just bringing the idea towards the suul'ka, outside of the hidden, many of the suul'ka have their body floating in the vacuum. I think the liir as a whole have some immunity or countermeasure to organics in space, via tech, psionics or something else.
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Marcus
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Re: Liir starships

Post by Marcus » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:05 pm

I think the swarm tells us what cerberos thinks of organic creatures in space^^- this said a new race with entirely organic ships would be cool.

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Will the Great
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Re: Liir starships

Post by Will the Great » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:22 am

Just noticed today that the Liir Armor CR section has some kind of cluster of fibres inside it - you can see through the window bit on the dorsal hull. Was that always there, or did I just never look at Liir since turning my texture settings up?

The appearance, at any rate, is definitely reminiscent of nerve fibres of some kind. So, I pose the question again: Do Liir starships have organic components to their construction?

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Mika
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Re: Liir starships

Post by Mika » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:19 am

Will the Great wrote:Just noticed today that the Liir Armor CR section has some kind of cluster of fibres inside it - you can see through the window bit on the dorsal hull. Was that always there, or did I just never look at Liir since turning my texture settings up?

The appearance, at any rate, is definitely reminiscent of nerve fibres of some kind. So, I pose the question again: Do Liir starships have organic components to their construction?


I think it's far more likely that Liir design their technologies based on organic equivalents. Even real life human scientists like to emulate useful things they see in nature and the Liir are far more likely to have a deep understanding of how the natural exemple works.

Also, you can "grow" some crystals and plastics etc., which is probably more practical than trying to weld in a frigid oceanic environment, as well as providing a nice rationale for organic imagery to game designers.
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Tarrak
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Re: Liir starships

Post by Tarrak » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:17 pm

The Liir are excellent metalworkers. Possibly the best there are. Their ships are made from common technology, but their construction might very well be the most efficient. But the Liir aren't as industrious as the Hivers for instance, so their ships aren't as tough. The Liir don't appear to compromise their constructions in the name of simplicity. That is why they have tentacles and other slightly strange protrusions and internal structures. Though the latter might very well be there to hold the hull together given the big cavity in the central portion of the mission section.
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