Afterlife?

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blackstar
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Afterlife?

Post by blackstar » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:33 pm

We know that the hiver believe you get reincarnated with a knew soul when you die for good and I'm not sure but I remember reading that the tarkisian afterlife is some kind of dark place. But what do the liir,zuul, and morrigi believe happened when a person dies?

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Erinys
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by Erinys » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:51 pm

Morrigi religion is heavily focused on ancestor worship. I've been meaning to write more extensively on that topic, but my time has gotten eaten up by other things. The short version is that when you die, you become an ancestral spirit, a protector and guide to your descendents in the same tribe. You live forever, free from pain and need, and bend your will to the good of your people. They strengthen you and make you more capable of helping them by worshiping you, providing you with offerings and sustaining your tomb in good condition. By showing respect and love to one's ancestors, Morrigi earn their "guardian angels".

The Liir vision of death is very much about losing the envelope of individuality and becoming one with the Song. They define life and thus death rather differently than we do; life to a Liir is essentially the span of time in which you are able to think, experience, feel and act as sentient being. Death is the moment of dissolution, when your mind and all its wonders unravel into the Song and are lost. Although the Song produces new life constantly, the end of you is the end of you. How much that matters depends, I suppose, on how important you imagine "you" are.

Prester Zuul have many different religious and philosophical beliefs, most of which humans would find familiar or at least easy to understand. Horde Zuul believe that genuine extinction of the mind is only necessary for inferior beings. The vast majority of all living things are Meat, not Mind, and it is their fate and their purpose to serve as fodder for superior beings, who are entitled to live forever because of the power of their Minds: immortality is the ultimate triumph of the will.

--Arinn
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blackstar
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by blackstar » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:27 am

:awesome: your universe is just :awesome:

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Erinys
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by Erinys » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:35 am

Glad you like it. :)

--Arinn
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Apostus
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by Apostus » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:01 pm

Really awesome like just about all lore in this universe!

I find myself connecting more and more with the Morrigi, which is quite unexpected for me.

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Mika
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by Mika » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:48 pm

Apostus wrote:I find myself connecting more and more with the Morrigi, which is quite unexpected for me.


Hehe, another Glamour victim. :twisted:
Michael, speaking for Boskone

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Sevain
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by Sevain » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:16 pm

Erinys wrote:Morrigi religion is heavily focused on ancestor worship. I've been meaning to write more extensively on that topic, but my time has gotten eaten up by other things. The short version is that when you die, you become an ancestral spirit, a protector and guide to your descendents in the same tribe. You live forever, free from pain and need, and bend your will to the good of your people. They strengthen you and make you more capable of helping them by worshiping you, providing you with offerings and sustaining your tomb in good condition. By showing respect and love to one's ancestors, Morrigi earn their "guardian angels".

--Arinn
What if the ancestor's life ended with dishonor? Or if they did something unacceptable, such as for example a (n-times) Great-grandchild of Khabul of the Burning Cities finding his actions amoral? Or the other way around: how far could a Morrigi stray and still expect to keep his guardian angel?

This whole afterlife business puts the whole Tholos smashing "oopsie" into a greater perspective, and it keeps looking worse and worse.

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Kaan'Ish
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by Kaan'Ish » Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:24 pm

In that vein, in Morrigi spiritual terms, what happens to those ancestors whose tombs have been destroyed/desecrated? Does this result in the effective 'death' of that ancestor spirit, or can a new tomb be constructed to house the spirit?
If the former, then the issue is going to be one of explosive bitterness between the younger empires, and those Morrigi tribes whose ancestors have suffered armageddon. If the latter, then I can see the possibility of charitable groups and foundations forming to funnel aid into Morrigi reconstruction efforts, as attempts to make amends for the actions of the rest of their species, particularly on more cosmopolitan trade hubs, or those colonies that have been absorbed by the Morrigi polity.
Last edited by Kaan'Ish on Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Erinys
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by Erinys » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:43 pm

Sevain wrote:What if the ancestor's life ended with dishonor? Or if they did something unacceptable, such as for example a (n-times) Great-grandchild of Khabul of the Burning Cities finding his actions amoral? Or the other way around: how far could a Morrigi stray and still expect to keep his guardian angel?


Morrigi who have been convicted of blasphemies (major moral crimes) are subjected to damnatio memoriae. Their names are stricken from public records and their portraits are destroyed, their files are expunged from tribal data banks and their monuments or grave sites are demolished, their bones scattered to the wind, sea or stars.

Ancestral spirits subjected to this treatment become homeless, wandering wraiths, unable to remember their former lives and doomed to roam land and stars seeking always for someone who recognizes or remembers them. Morrigi have a particular horror of amnesia for this reason; they associate loss of memory with the vengeful dead.

Wandering ghosts are considered dangerous and potentially lethal, especially if they are extremely old; over centuries and millennia they become the enemies of all life, determined to destroy those who betrayed them.

The reverse situation--in which a living person commits a crime and is abandoned or even punished by the ancestors--is also possible from the Morrigi point of view. Many Morrigi legends involve the overthrow of a tyrant, a witch or some other exceptionally wicked person. In some of these legends, the ancestral ghosts of the wicked will actually appear in the story as mysterious strangers who have a great deal of information about the tyrant and his habits or crimes. They help the young hero or heroine to defeat the villain, often by providing key information or a key distraction at a crucial moment.

In the end, these mysterious benefactors may be revealed as "angels" who decided to bring about the doom of their own living kin--thus putting an end to the ongoing shame that the tribe would otherwise endure.

--Arinn
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blackstar
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by blackstar » Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:10 pm

Do the tarkisians believe that if you do something honorable or heroic in your life then you get the rewarded after death or does everyone go to the same place?

levi_Will
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by levi_Will » Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:15 pm

Valhalla?
Mecron wrote:wow levi...you are previewing AND being a sarcasm master at the same time. Double awesome :thumbsup:

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Erinys
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by Erinys » Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:32 am

blackstar wrote:Do the tarkisians believe that if you do something honorable or heroic in your life then you get the rewarded after death or does everyone go to the same place?


The Tarka believe that there is a place for everyone in the afterlife, and that you earn your place in death by behaving appropriately in life. When you die, if you are given appropriate funeral rites you will find yourself at the gates of your appointed afterlife and you will be greeted there by the guardian of that place, an omniscient and all-powerful Warden which knows the name, family and clan of every person who belongs in his or her district of the Beyond.

When a person meets a sudden or unexpected end, or is unlikely to receive proper funerary rites, they tend to "fall between the cracks" of the bureaucracy of the underworld. Lacking a funeral banner, coins, clay tablet or some other token to present to the Wardens, you would have to prove your identity by some other means, and sometimes these tests really amount to eternal torment of one kind or another.

There is a reason that the Tarka admiral laughs as he says "Give the Wardens of Hell my kind regards!" ;)

--Arinn
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Kirsendarken
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by Kirsendarken » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:11 pm

Erinys wrote:Wandering ghosts are considered dangerous and potentially lethal, especially if they are extremely old; over centuries and millennia they become the enemies of all life, determined to destroy those who betrayed them.
--Arinn


Does this have any implications for how the Morrigi view the Suul'Ka (especially before they find out about their true origins)?

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Erinys
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by Erinys » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:20 am

Kirsendarken wrote:Does this have any implications for how the Morrigi view the Suul'Ka (especially before they find out about their true origins)?


Certainly the appearance of the Immortal makes perfect sense to them.

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Mockery
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Re: Afterlife?

Post by Mockery » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:48 pm

What is the Morrigi view on ancestors who become (effectively,) 'damnatio memoraie' due to their descendants dying off, or dying in a manner that leaves no remains for a tomb? Ancestors that, through no fault of their own (except conceivably not doing enough for their descendants- don't know whether they attribute flaws to ancestors,) end up completely forgotten and without anything to tie them to the living? Do they end up as 'malicious specter' as the actual-damnatio-memoraie ones do?

Second, and partially related, what happens to a Morrigi that dies without children? Going off of the 'tribes' kind of thing they have going, I would assume that anyone in their tribe can suffice to remember them, but am I correct, and what does this mean, good/bad afterlife wise?

Oh, and third, Do the Morrigi think this is the case for children of the dust? Do they try to convert them, give them mildly disapproving looks, or actively discourage them from aping (hehe) Morrigi practices?

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