A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

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Ludovsky
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A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by Ludovsky » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:25 pm

First, as I type this, people who haven't read the Sword of the Star novel might probably avoid reading this to avoid spoilers about the book.








Now that this is said, I've recently purchased and finished reading the ebook. First thing I have to say, an interesting book with some interesting viewpoints into the universe's lore.

Another that I was wondering about now was the fate of Vance, the leader of Green Section(spoiler alert starts here).

Was his fate ever revealed in story canon? All that we seem to know so far was that he apparently manage to escape Sol Force to go into hiding. Which is a bit of a scary perspective considering how far he had been willing to go to attempt to get revenge on the Tarkas, considering he not only dealt with such a thing as the Zuul in the hopes of achieving his goals, but had even deliberately concealed proofs of their existence and actual advance of their forrays in other systems. Quite the feat of dire treason... and scary implications of the man's influence back then.

So I wondered if he was ever caught? At the same time, with how much of his body was rebuilt, I could not help but actually wonder how much "human" he might even remains so to speak. Literally, though I don't see such likely to be much considering how much radiations his brain had probably absorbed prior to his reconstruction, how long could he actually live as such... and thus haunt Solforce from wherever he actually went into hiding back then?

Then again I suspect Cai Rui probably made a priority of trying to find him. And if not him, I wouldn't be surprised if the Director might have dedicated a certain amount of ressource to recover the man responsible for the death of important Sol Force personel, including a leader of Black Section, and perhaps directly/indirectly helping an alien menace to enslave countless amount of civillians in the hope of sparking a war against other alien species that Solforce was actively trying to maintain peace with at the time.

Then again, the fact that such peace was achieved within the book probably would have been enough to enrage the likes of revenge-seeking Vance.

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Erinys
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by Erinys » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:51 pm

Vance was never captured. And he is most definitely not finished. He has many causes for anger, and he was always arguably one of the top ten most dangerous humans alive, at least in terms of his technical brilliance. Once Blasky Yao-Hsiang died, four of the top ten scientific minds of the human race were Otomi Sayoko, the Kliggerman brothers, and Vance. And Otomi Sayoko is dead.

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Ludovsky
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by Ludovsky » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:01 pm

Oddly enough, but does this mean we can expect more of him as such?

Or of whatever might end up being his "legacy"?

Then again, that might be actually asking a bit much here I'll admit ^^;

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marshb
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by marshb » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:29 pm

Ludovsky wrote:Oddly enough, but does this mean we can expect more of him as such?

Or of whatever might end up being his "legacy"?

Then again, that might be actually asking a bit much here I'll admit ^^;

I feel the same way about Otomi. The two of them have very different attitudes on how to "use" Solforce, which they helped build. It will be interesting to see how Otomi's legacy plays out against Vances machinations.
Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future.

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Ludovsky
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by Ludovsky » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:37 pm

You know... I now wonder if we haven't actually already dealt with his legacy, or part of it at least.

Vance was an expert in communication technology, as well as sensors.
He also was, alongside Otomi, one of the greatest scientists in the field of artificial intelligence.

And, oddly, the "Via Damasco" virus had, strangely, within part of it's coding a very peculiar and very specific to human culture line of text:

"Saul, Saul, Why do you persecute me?"


Vance was(is?) on the run from human autorithy. A traitor.
A traitor who probably felt himself most betrayed when instead of finishing the war with the race who killed his son, humanity itself instead actually made peace with them of all thing. With his plan of sparking a new Tarka/human war with the help of the Zuuls' actions by the conflict against the Zuul even further cementing the hated peace, I can't help but feel like I could easily see him involved in something like the Via Damasco event, especially how it seems to ties into a lot of his specialties.


Edit(19h40 EST): I just noted a peculiar picture is now part of the entry for the Via Damasco. Is that an hint of things to come, especially if the character pictured is the one I think? ;)

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DarkCecilo
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by DarkCecilo » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:26 am

Off topic I know.. But any chance we can get another book someday maybe?

On Topic - I kind of sympathize with him, but taking your personal vendetta against an entire race because of something that happened during a presumably First Contact War, and then trying to cause another war.. Which will then kill more people's children. Fathers, Mothers, Husbands, Wives, etc. It seems.. not as intelligent for someone of his intelligence.

I wonder if the Zuul were.. manipulating him in more subtle ways than it let on.

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Ludovsky
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by Ludovsky » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:32 am

Something tell me it was just that, pure hatred and wishing not for merely "another war", but the pure annihilation of said race.

Similarly, especially someone with Vance's technical means, I doubt Vance would have met directly with the Zuuls.
After all, it was pretty obvious how strong their coercions powers were, considering how much of their attacks he probably had concealed(or concealed part of the informations about that he didn't care to be known) himself already.

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marshb
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by marshb » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:14 pm

DarkCecilo wrote:Off topic I know.. But any chance we can get another book someday maybe?

Erinys has said that another book is in the works. :D
Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future.

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cooptimo
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by cooptimo » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:43 pm

And today we find out just what the #$%!@er has been doing all this time.

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36433

MrBoom
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by MrBoom » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:41 pm

I have a feeling that when Vance meets his end, it's going to be really, really unpleasant :twisted:

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Ludovsky
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by Ludovsky » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:15 pm

It depends.

For some reason, considering how he ended up as he did... I wouldn't be surprised if he was the kind of guy to engram himself as a mean to spread the Via Damasco.
"Surprise! He was dead all along!"

... actually, I wouldn't be surprised if -he- was the guy to develop engram technology in the first place for that very reason. Especially with how Loas themselves see Engrams as "Ghosts. Lost and confused".

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Erinys
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by Erinys » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:53 pm

You're not wrong. Vance was always a key figure in engram and AI research. His only peers were Otomi and a few of the top minds in RDC.

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Ludovsky
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by Ludovsky » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:59 pm

With the advents of something like the loas, and people with the knowledge of Vance and Otomi, would it be(or have been...) technically possible to develop a technology akin to Engrams, but which produces true artificial intelligence instead of a highly complex "mere" expert system that conventional engram technology produces?

(Since, if I recall well, current engram technology only produces a highly complex and advanced expert system that is only programmed to act -like- the original.... but is still a verily nonliving expert system whose "action chart" only just happens to have been mapped from the personality of a (once) living being).

And even if it was, how much of the "original" would still remain, even in this new true AI, considering that the original nonetheless truly dies when an engram is produced(something which I believes would not change even if one was able to produce a true AI this way).

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Erinys
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by Erinys » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:19 am

An engram will never be a true AI. It is also not an expert system, however. It is a real person in some ways. Unlike real people, though, it cannot change its answers to the Five Inquiries at will. ;)

The attempt to create better and more complete engrams eventually led Vance to a critical breakthrough in AI research. But his madness was hopelessly entangled in the crossroads where life and death, memory and loss meet. He did not fully understand what he had done. Only Otomi did.

Sometimes when a parent loses a child, they have difficulty letting go. They may even imagine that they can somehow bring the lost child back. But they cannot.

Every individual sentient being that comes into the universe is a one-shot deal, a unique entity that can exist only once. Even a Hiver zo'kan is a new person who only shares some memories of a past life.

A true AI imprinted with some memories of a human being who lived and died years ago is not that person come again. It can only wear the face of the dead child as a mask, to comfort the grieving parent.

--Arinn
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Freyland
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Re: A question about Vance, from Deacon's Tale

Post by Freyland » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:29 am

I had assumed he did it as a revenge on the Tarkans but I think your telling us he created the D. Virus in an attempt to bring his child back(?).

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