last stands

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sob
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last stands

Post by sob » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:34 pm

Humanity is full of last stands both in fiction and realty. Many human military forces have willfully gone in to battel knowing that defeat was certain. How do the other races feel about this. I could see the tarrk has a race that fights to the end. Hivers i dont know if the queen was in danger they would but over some far away dust ball? zuul are the once that the others do last stands against so i dont know. Dragons and fish again i dont know all though i guess the fish would kill themselves before becoming slaves.
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Azrael Ultima
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Re: last stands

Post by Azrael Ultima » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:20 pm

I don't think you understand the Tarka at all. I'd consider them the least likely to do it.

Hivers i think would be more likely to actually do it than anybody else, including humans. Death not being quite as final should help a lot. They also have less of a focus on the individuals survival.

(Horde) Zuul might end up in one, but not so often on purpose. They just don't know many directions outside of "towards the enemy".

Morrigi depends on the specific commander, i'd say, while the Liir might already see themselves as doing a Last Stand all the time. Remember that becoming a Black Swimmer starts with "dying".
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sob
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Re: last stands

Post by sob » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:28 pm

Not all bugs get reborn but yes it dose help.

The black swimmers die because they can never return home(and spread the darkness they have seen) i dont see them throwing there lives away for no or little gain.
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erdrik
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Re: last stands

Post by erdrik » Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:31 pm

If the last stand was to defend the civilian fishies on the colony behind them they might.
Or even just to give time for evacuation of a civilian station or something of that situation.

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That Schmuck
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Re: last stands

Post by That Schmuck » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:47 pm

Yeah, the tarka are big believers of "discretion is the better part of valor," as far as last stands go. Out-think, out-maneuver, and out-gun the enemy so that they make their heroic final stand... and you proceed to victory.

I think the big factor for morrigi doing so is whether anyone will remember. I get the impression they NEVER want to be the Unknown Soldier. But if tales of their bravery could be sung for generations...

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Tarrak
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Re: last stands

Post by Tarrak » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:25 pm

While the Tarka are firm believers in not throwing their lives away, that doesn't mean they will not fight to the bitter end. They just don't have a concept of glorious last stands as such. I believe it was asked how the Tarka view the Spartans at Thermopylae, and it was something like they were impressed with their ability to withstand a much stronger foe, but considered it folly to not retreat out of some notion of 'non-retreat'.
So the Tarka would indeed do last stands if they are the most effective way, or there are no other options. But they would never balk at being ordered to leave a battle or 'abandon' comrades (think on how hard it is for humans to deal with survivors guilt, even before the event, Tarkas don't have that).

The Morrigi don't appear to subscribe to glorious last stand either. Not because we are told so directly, but the anecdotal evidence from the Suuligi War tend to describe hit and runs as well as holding actions. So to me it seems the Morrigi like to conduct warfare of movement and maneouver, rather than clingin onto all terrain. This fits well with their actual ingame strengths and weaknesses. So I view them to be the least likely to do a last stand.

The Liir are possibly the most determined race in battle, bordering fanatic. I would not be surprised if they would fight to the end against a Suul'ka or Zuul, every time. They fear and despise them, and importantly they pity the Suul'ka. They do not wish to subject anyone to them, and so if their lives can buy even a few minutes of retreat they are bound to try to do it. Against the other races I think they are less likely to be that tough, though their great empathy is bound to fill them with dread as to what will happen to the civilian population if they lose a battle over a planet they occupy.

Hiver history is filled with last stands. If the Queen wills it, chances are that the Warriors will do it, but of course the local Prince is likely to have a say in the matter (though in that case it is his decision, the troops have already decided that they will follow orders).
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Cpt. Awesome
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Re: last stands

Post by Cpt. Awesome » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:04 am

I think its probably better to say that some of the races would generally have more "romanticism" for last stands than others. All races must've had their fair share of last stands over the various millennia of recorded histories.

sob
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Re: last stands

Post by sob » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:19 pm

Cpt. Awesome wrote:I think its probably better to say that some of the races would generally have more "romanticism" for last stands than others. All races must've had their fair share of last stands over the various millennia of recorded histories.

That is true but some humans have willing gone in to a battel they know they would loose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camar%C3%B3n
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Ludovsky
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Re: last stands

Post by Ludovsky » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:40 am

More recently:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saragarhi

"The Battle of Saragarhi was fought during the Tirah Campaign on 12 September 1897 between twenty-one Sikhs of the 4th Battalion (then 36th Sikhs) of the Sikh Regiment of British India, defending an army post, and 10,000 Afghan and Orakzai tribesmen. The battle occurred in the North-West Frontier Province, which formed part of British India. It is now named the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and is part of Pakistan.

The contingent of the twenty-one Sikhs from the 36th Sikhs was led by Havildar Ishar Singh. They all chose to fight to the death. The battle is not well known outside military academia, but is "considered by some military historians as one of history's great last-stands".[9] Sikh military personnel and Sikh civilians commemorate the battle every year on 12 September, as Saragarhi Day.

The British and Indian armies’ polo teams also commemorate the battle annually by holding the Saragarhi Challenge Cup.[10]"

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fiendishrabbit
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Re: last stands

Post by fiendishrabbit » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:46 pm

sob wrote:
Cpt. Awesome wrote:I think its probably better to say that some of the races would generally have more "romanticism" for last stands than others. All races must've had their fair share of last stands over the various millennia of recorded histories.

That is true but some humans have willing gone in to a battel they know they would loose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camar%C3%B3n


Honestly. I call that a win.
Achieving a crucial objective that means the success or failure of the overall war is always a victory, even if the force you commited is utterly destroyed.
Honestly I can't imagine Hivers or Liir not commiting to a battle like that.
Tarka would probably try to exhaust all other options (such as grabbing the enemy attention by hit&run attacks). But if it came down to it, they'd probably commit to such odds too.
You can't trust the Liir. Never trust someone that smiles all the time.

sob
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Re: last stands

Post by sob » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:39 pm

how is that a win. The only reason any of the foreign legionnaires even made it alive was that was that the Mexican commander had a heart.
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Azrael Ultima
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Re: last stands

Post by Azrael Ultima » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:36 pm

They managed to achieve a critical objective, the mexicans did not.

That's a pretty clear score for the legion.
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Sevain
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Re: last stands

Post by Sevain » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:03 pm

sob wrote:how is that a win. The only reason any of the foreign legionnaires even made it alive was that was that the Mexican commander had a heart.
If you prioritize achieving your objective above survival then yes, the outcome of that battle was very much a victory for the (dead) legionnaires.

sob
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Re: last stands

Post by sob » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:32 pm

Survival is all way the primary objective. A good solder dose not die for his country but makes the other guy die for his. What the legion achieved there was a miracle even if they all died in the first shots it would change nothing. But to say the won it foolish they where bettean and they had no hope in victory.
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Z32
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Re: last stands

Post by Z32 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:52 pm

sob wrote:Survival is all way the primary objective.

That depends entirely on priorities.

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