last stands

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DarkCecilo
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Re: last stands

Post by DarkCecilo » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:07 pm

sob wrote:Survival is all way the primary objective. A good solder dose not die for his country but makes the other guy die for his. What the legion achieved there was a miracle even if they all died in the first shots it would change nothing. But to say the won it foolish they where bettean and they had no hope in victory.


You and they had different ideology. You may want to live. But they wanted to win. Their "Defeat" Resulted in their side winning the greater battle. They died heroes. Forever honored and venerated, they will never be forgotten by their people.

Onto the main point, Survival isn't always the primary objective for people. Many times their goal in life is to leave a mark on the world. I would say these men did.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: last stands

Post by Azrael Ultima » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:41 pm

sob wrote:Survival is all way the primary objective. A good solder dose not die for his country but makes the other guy die for his. What the legion achieved there was a miracle even if they all died in the first shots it would change nothing. But to say the won it foolish they where bettean and they had no hope in victory.

If survival was always the primary objective, there would be no last stands. I.e. reality disagrees with you.
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sob
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Re: last stands

Post by sob » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:43 pm

Z32 wrote:
sob wrote:Survival is all way the primary objective.

That depends entirely on priorities.

Human prioritie is to live every thing we do is to survive.
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sob
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Re: last stands

Post by sob » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:51 pm

DarkCecilo wrote:
sob wrote:Survival is all way the primary objective. A good solder dose not die for his country but makes the other guy die for his. What the legion achieved there was a miracle even if they all died in the first shots it would change nothing. But to say the won it foolish they where bettean and they had no hope in victory.


You and they had different ideology. You may want to live. But they wanted to win. Their "Defeat" Resulted in their side winning the greater battle. They died heroes. Forever honored and venerated, they will never be forgotten by their people.

Onto the main point, Survival isn't always the primary objective for people. Many times their goal in life is to leave a mark on the world. I would say these men did.



Ideology is the same but the meaning of win is different. Dead men have won nothing. when you are dead you have lost. Yes you may have resulted in a win in the grand scheme of things but you have lost. I am not saying what they did was stupid or wrong but they lost they knew they where going to loose and still fought but at the end of the day they lost.
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Starknight
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Re: last stands

Post by Starknight » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:53 pm

sob wrote:
Z32 wrote:
sob wrote:Survival is all way the primary objective.

That depends entirely on priorities.

Human prioritie is to live every thing we do is to survive.


The 'survival' is that of the species in many cases, not of the individual. Why else would people put their lives on the line for their children or spouses? Or cousins, aunts, uncles? Or even, in many cases, complete strangers?

By your argument, the best thing you could do if being chased by a pack of wolves would be to outrun your children and wife. The wolves would be satisfied with them, right? Whereas I, and many other people, would stop and delay the wolves to give the others time to escape. Altruism is a species-survival trait, however hard it may be on the individual.
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Azrael Ultima
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Re: last stands

Post by Azrael Ultima » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:54 pm

sob wrote:
Z32 wrote:
sob wrote:Survival is all way the primary objective.

That depends entirely on priorities.

Human prioritie is to live every thing we do is to survive.

You have never heard of the Darwin Awards then, i presume?
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sob
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Re: last stands

Post by sob » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:55 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:
sob wrote:Survival is all way the primary objective. A good solder dose not die for his country but makes the other guy die for his. What the legion achieved there was a miracle even if they all died in the first shots it would change nothing. But to say the won it foolish they where bettean and they had no hope in victory.

If survival was always the primary objective, there would be no last stands. I.e. reality disagrees with you.

No just some time people ignore it. Just like people ignore red trafic lights, or the speed limit or just about every thing in life.
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sob
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Re: last stands

Post by sob » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:57 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:You have never heard of the Darwin Awards then, i presume?

They did not set out to kill them self, they did it because some humans are beyond stupid. Or subcoisaly they helping humanity by removing them self from the gene pool.
you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

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Azrael Ultima
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Re: last stands

Post by Azrael Ultima » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:17 pm

sob wrote:No just some time people ignore it. Just like people ignore red trafic lights, or the speed limit or just about every thing in life.

If they ignore it, it's no longer the prime objective for them.
Therefore, the prime objective is not always survival.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

sob
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Re: last stands

Post by sob » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:41 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:
sob wrote:No just some time people ignore it. Just like people ignore red trafic lights, or the speed limit or just about every thing in life.

If they ignore it, it's no longer the prime objective for them.
Therefore, the prime objective is not always survival.

is a law no longer a law when you break it.
you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

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Azrael Ultima
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Re: last stands

Post by Azrael Ultima » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:56 pm

sob wrote:is a law no longer a law when you break it.

If it's a legal law, no. If it is a natural law, then yes.

However, this is neither.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

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Erinys
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Re: last stands

Post by Erinys » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:59 pm

Tweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Enough off-topic arguing, folks. Bring it back on topics or take it to Misc.

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sob
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Re: last stands

Post by sob » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:51 pm

Erinys wrote:Tweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Enough off-topic arguing, folks. Bring it back on topics or take it to Misc.

--Arinn

Yes O Divine and Omniscient Goddess.
you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

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Erinys
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Re: last stands

Post by Erinys » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:23 pm

Fixed that for you, sob. ;p

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