Who built the system killer? And Why?

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Ludovsky
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by Ludovsky » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:11 pm

Mecron wrote:You are mistaken...he is a doomsday machine created by people so paranoid they allowed for no way for it to be subverted. A wepon to spit from the gate of hell with, so to speak. The same kind of insanity that causes tens of millions of dollars on researching armored command trucks to race along radiation blasted highways launching third strikes of missiles. ;)


Actually, that kind of answers my wonderings from earlier:

Ludovsky wrote:Considering the automated nature of the System Killer(s), I cannot help but wonder if they weren't something like an Elder Race's equivalent of the russian Dead Hand system:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand_ ... ear_war%29

Considering how it destroy systems without discrimination or even apparent goal other than destruction and it's automated nature makes me wonder if it's launch itself wasn't automated as well. I.e.: a weapon that could be released automatically even long after the empire's leadership, if not the whole of the empire itself, had fallen with nobody technically around to order a retaliation strike.



Also:
Erinys wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roomba

--Arinn


Thank you Erinys, this made my day. XD

theSmallerFish
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by theSmallerFish » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:33 pm

Since Mecron was kind enough to supply us with the why (and since my first guess on that was completely wrong), I figured I should have another stab at the who (which is to say that I will now attempt to once again guess who built the system killer, not that I will attempt to assassinate a famous rock band):

The people who built the system killer were a lot like us. Well, in some ways they might have been very different, for all I know they had prehensile nostrils, ate uranium and excreted marshmallows, but that's beside the point, they thought a lot like us, at least in certain situations. From our perspective their tools and weapons were undoubtedly impressive, but the mindset behind the system killer is chilling familiar. Trying to extrapolate their culture and civilization beyond their last act of madness is more difficult, one event does not define a culture, even if it ends that culture. There is a good chance that how we see them is nothing like how they saw themselves, they probably didn't think of their civilization as defined by terrible weapons and doomsday scenarios, and until just before the end they might even have been right. For all we know, the average member of their civilization was a perfectly delightful creature who would never dream of unleashing something like the system killer. Perhaps that's why the minds behind the system killer wanted an automated system, if they gave a person the choice of whether or not to pull the trigger, they might choose not to, and you simply can't risk that :evil:. Added to the possibility that there might be no one left to pull the trigger, or that people in the future might 'gasp' choose to disarm the system killer, people simply have to be taken out of the decision making process. One way or another the product of a few twisted, or desperate, minds is hardly a good guide to everything that led up to its creation, unfortunately that product erased any other evidence we could use.

So, there you have it; the system killer's creators were people who, sometimes at least, thought a lot like us, they probably called themselves people or 'the people', they lived on a planet they probably called 'Dirt' or 'Water', or possibly even a gas giant called 'Air' or a star called 'Fire' or 'Plasma'. Their culture cannot be easily summed up from its last, terminal act.

I wouldn't judge them too harshly, they may have had some monsters and maniacs among them, but that is hardly unusual. They are unlikely to be the first people in the universe who unleashed something horrible because they were foolish, or scared, or angry, and they certainly were not the last. At worst, their crime is that they were smarter than we are, without becoming any wiser.

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balti knights
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by balti knights » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:29 pm

I wonder if it had anything to do with the disappearance of the Silver Imperium
The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible. Arthur C. Clarke.

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Resok
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by Resok » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:00 pm

Erinys wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roomba

--Arinn


I have one of these... it regularly attempts to devour spare computer parts and cords and cables lying upon the ground (or near the ground). My wife and I joke about how it's only a matter of time before it assimilates enough hardware to make a weapon. We both laugh and then eye it suspiciously.

All hail our new robotic overlords! :insane:
- Resok

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vaccum_pony
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by vaccum_pony » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:07 pm

Image

Well, for everyone asking for a cat race in the SotS universe...
- - - -

Shed not a tear for humanity, go fetch my stars.

Vaccum Pony

theSmallerFish
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by theSmallerFish » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:34 pm

vaccum_pony wrote:Image

Well, for everyone asking for a cat race in the SotS universe...


Behold the unstoppable cat-roomba alliance! Cower before your new cyber-feline overlords!

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Erinys
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by Erinys » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:24 am

Felid + Loa = OP.

--Arinn
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theSmallerFish
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by theSmallerFish » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:42 am

FTL concept for cat race: They have no conscious control over their FTL drive. If it happens to move them so that you have invaded their personal space, it's your fault.

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Ludovsky
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by Ludovsky » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:05 am

Erinys wrote:Felid + Loa = OP.

--Arinn


And now I imagine loas hacking enemy cruiser's ship consoles with pictures of lolcats to utterly distract the crew from the fighting by enrapturing with the kitten's antics before a torpedoes blow up their ships.

theSmallerFish
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by theSmallerFish » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:24 pm

I thought I'd try posting one more guess about the system killer so you can all enjoy my wrongness one more time :googly:.

So here it is: there wasn't just 'more than one' system killer, there were a lot of them, as in thousands at the bare minimum. The reason why I'm guessing that is because, as we know, there is one of them still operating five billion years after they were built and deployed, and that's amazing. Of course the system killer's creators would have undoubtedly built it to withstand anything the battlefield and interstellar travel had to throw at it, but surviving five billion years is a very different, and much more difficult, technical challenge. More importantly it's not a technical challenge its designers would have thought about, after all it's still going not because they wanted it to still be running after all this time, but because they just didn't care what happened after it had anihilated "the enemy". What's more, the obvious first steps in making something that might endure for five billion years (adaptation, self replication), would be things that might allow the enemy to subvert the system killer, and hence would have been discarded as weaknesses.

On that basis it seems likely that Sparky has survived the long eons since his creation primarily by luck. That means that for every system killer still roaming around wrecking the universe, there are a lot of them that didn't make it. Five billion years is a long time, and the universe is a very big place full of very dangerous things both naturally occuring and otherwise. In the end it doesn't matter how big and bad you are, I'd guess the odds are very much against any single machine surviving that long.

That said, it's still quite possible that Sparky was unique when he was created, but the mindset behind his creation doesn't seem to be that unusual, which could mean that a lot of civilizations have ended by deploying a doomsday machine like Sparky. As I said, the universe is a very big place, with plenty of room for a large number of civilizations building many terrible things. Of that profusion of ancient monsters, Sparky might not be unusual in power or intent, he's simply the only one lucky enough to survive.

There is however a third option which did occur to me, although it would require quite a few things to be true as Obi-Wan said "from a certain point of view", so I wouldn't take it too seriously :insane:. Tinfoil hats should be worn beyond this point: Sparky didn't survive, at least the original didn't, Sparky died a long time ago, but not before the Von Neumans, or something like them, weighed, measured, and possibly ate him. They filed the design away so that they'd have an efficient solution to certain 'problems' if and when they emerged. Whenever they decide that its time to resurrect Sparky again they don't put him back together quite the same as he was, after all they have quite different problems for him to work on, and that needs a shiny new Von Neuman control system where Sparky's brain used to be. Most of the time that's enough to keep him on a leash, but the trouble is that the system killer was built to prevent any attempt to subvert its mission, and every now and then some well hidden security system that the VNs have never been able to completely eliminate, wakes up in the belly of the beast, it removes the invasive machinery, repairs the 'malfunction', and suddenly Sparky's back. Of course this is pretty serious tinfoil hat territory, since it would mean that Sparky only the last survivor of his war because someone chose to resurrect him (which requires a specialised definition of the term 'survivor'), and that VN warships are not system killers, in the same way that a dog is not a wolf, if dogs sometimes spontaneously reverted to being wolves for no readily apparent reason.

You can remove your tinfoil hats now, and return to sanity, where I am almost certainly wrong :googly:.

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Darv57
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by Darv57 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:12 am

You know fish, your tinfoil hat can be just as much fun as the actual lore at points. :googly:

theSmallerFish
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by theSmallerFish » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:55 am

Thank you.

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Darv57
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Re: Who built the system killer? And Why?

Post by Darv57 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:52 am

your welcome.

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