Crew Numbers

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Aedrion
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Crew Numbers

Post by Aedrion » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:58 pm

The game is pretty accurate when it comes to crew numbers, and I love thinking of all the people aboard a vessel as they fight for survival and how you have to assure they don't die or your ship won't be manned, it's awesome to think there's so many crew aboard each ship. =)

Save for liir ships, for some reason.

The game says they run simple cruisers with 1-2 crew, DNs with just a little more. I saw this on a thread in the 'Ships' section of the forums too and people said it's probably because they're good at multitasking.

But it sounds like hogwash to me, a cruiser is 90 meters long, a dreadnaught is 270 meters long, even if they were able to do ten things at the same time, how would they be able to do it in such huge spaces? Then there's the fact that when playing as liir, crew never ever dies except versus spectres, crew % are ussualy way over 1000%, even when the ship has taken insane damage and some of the crew should have died.

In short, how many liir have to be aboard a cruiser, dreadnaught or Leviathan to make it work? Lorewise.

Simetra
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by Simetra » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:49 pm

The numbers are the lore numbers ;)
If the game wouldn't consider the lore, all races would have roughly the same numbers.

For the lgic behind it: You forget about telekinetics. The Liir can do many tasks and don't have to bother with distances because of that :)

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Aedrion
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by Aedrion » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:07 am

That'd mean that liir are not only so overpowered that they can operate 10 systems at the same time (or more) which is not related to being able to use telekinesis since that only implies they can do (perhaps several small) things from a distance. But that liir are also immune to ship damage? I've had liir ships where the whole mission section was gone and that were basically flaming wreckage already, yet no crew died at any point? Whaaaaaat?

I get it, liir are gifted, they can do things from a distance and it makes sense that one liir can do what 5 or 6 people are needed for, that still would mean more than 3 are needed to man a fully armed and complex cruiser, let alone a dreadnaught.

The ship's crew capacity even says there's room for like 50 liir on a cruiser, so why and how they need but 3 is just nonsensical.

Treliant
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by Treliant » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:17 am

I believe that the numbers stating that the liir ships being able to hold 50 crew means that there are actually 50 crew on that ship, the reference to 5 needed to run the ship basically refferes to crew efficiency so that in the middle of battle if @#$% hits the fan 5 crew is enough to perform miracles for a short time to keep the ship at 100% capability. My understanding of Liir Psionics is that they truly are capapble of the type of mental control needed to make this happen, expecially after specific military training to prepare them for those situations.

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erdrik
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by erdrik » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:49 am

Also, IIRC, there is a reason Liir ships are shaped the way they are...

Elders are leaders... (not refering to Eldest, just Elders)
Don't die of old age...
Never stop growing...

Pretty sure you can do the math there. ;)

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Aedrion
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by Aedrion » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:06 pm

There being 50 aboard a ship but only 3 needed to make it run makes sense if you look at the 1500% crew indicator.

But that again begs the question, why don't they die during critical hits, why are there so many of them on there and why can they run a ship with just 3?

In a recent game I noticed a cruiser with 1250% crew got two critical hits, one to life support and one to cooling systems, meaning that crew died every 30 seconds and more crew died when above normal speed. To test out if it worked, I sent the vessel in overdrive to see if the number of crew would slink.
It didn't, they didn't die, when playing liir, your crew doesn't die. xD

On the suject of elders, elders are around 5 meters long at age 300, most admirals are around 230, meaning they're probably 4 meters long, I doubt they'd fill up a 90 meter ship any time soon, unless they eat too much and get really fat xD

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Heart of Storm
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by Heart of Storm » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:31 pm

A crew of 50 on a Liir ship doesnt mean 50 Liir


It means a few Liir, and a bunch of Prester-Zuul to fend off boarding actions..

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Nspace
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by Nspace » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:52 pm

Just to throw out some hard numbers here, a Standard Command / Strikeforce CnC / Stutter Warp Liir CR has a crew complement of 37 (5 + 20 + 12). It requires 11 (1 + 5 + 5) before taking into account weapon or module crew requirements.

A Standard Command / Armada CNC / Stutter Warp Liir DN has a crew complement of 100 (30 + 40 + 30). It requires 40 (10 + 20 + 10) before taking into account weapon or module crew requirements.

So while the Liir do have smaller crews than the other races, it's not quite as small as 3 to run a whole CR. :lol:
"Quando omni flunkus, mortati" - "When all else fails, play dead"
SotS 1 wiki: http://wiki.swordofthestars.com/sots1/Main_Page
SotS 2 wiki: http://wiki.swordofthestars.com/sots2/SotS2_Codex

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Aedrion
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by Aedrion » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:27 pm

Could be, all makes sense. =)

Still would like to know why they don't die though. Try it, they don't, not even if ship is basically wreckage. :o

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DarkCecilo
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by DarkCecilo » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:01 am

Are you complaining that your crew are almost invincible? Really? I for one would be very happy if my crew never died. I wouldn't have to send home so many care packages. So many widows and/or Orphans..

Treliant
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by Treliant » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:26 am

I don't know I find liir ships are the ones that most commonly go dark for me. In my Current game as hivers fighting a liir Empire I've had 5 liir ships so far (out of 60-70) just go dark and start drifting in space as they lost all their crew. Its early game and i'm only using missles and mass drivers currently. Maybe you are just getting really lucky Aedrion :D

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Aedrion
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by Aedrion » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:17 pm

DarkCecilo wrote:Are you complaining that your crew are almost invincible? Really? I for one would be very happy if my crew never died. I wouldn't have to send home so many care packages. So many widows and/or Orphans..


Yes, as it removes crew as a concern, and that detracts from the game. Besides, liir are already 'dead' when they join the navy. xD

Treliant wrote:I don't know I find liir ships are the ones that most commonly go dark for me. In my Current game as hivers fighting a liir Empire I've had 5 liir ships so far (out of 60-70) just go dark and start drifting in space as they lost all their crew. Its early game and i'm only using missles and mass drivers currently. Maybe you are just getting really lucky Aedrion :D


If YOU play as liir, your crew doesn't die, if you play against them, they do. I think it's a bug, honestly. =)

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DarkCecilo
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by DarkCecilo » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:23 pm

Hey. If you want to trade crew loss with my humans I am sure their children, fathers, mothers, spouses would be happy to not have to worry anymore.

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Gizmoh
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by Gizmoh » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:25 am

I don't know, with the older patch I ended up with quite a lot of empty Liir cruisers floating lifeless, not destroyed, but crewless. It never happened to me though, only to the AI.

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Itharus
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Re: Crew Numbers

Post by Itharus » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:49 am

There are pictures of Liir using 2-4 tentacles at a time to manipulate objects whilst simultaneously manipulating several other objects telepathically.

If that doesn't explain why Liir can get away with less crew than other races, nothing will :P
Go Hiver or go home!

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