Please stop creating SotS2 business threads

Talk about all things to do with the sequel to our flagship 4X title.

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VikingDream
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Re: Please stop creating SotS2 business threads

Post by VikingDream » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:50 pm

Mecron wrote:stop arguing with him zanz...in my day people were like this two but they didn't want a pat on the head for it. They just did it and that was fine. But now its the internet era and everyone must hear about your stuff but also tell you that you are awesome for it.

It is what it is. The world goes on and Viking will someday benefit from people who do NOT think like him. Which, I guess, makes him a winner! ;)



Wait so wishing KP luck is bad? Your company dropped the ball big time and you want a pat on the head for it? We were told to buy The Pit and you'd use the funds from that to fix Sots2 .... wait that was a lie you want a pat on the for that too?

Talk about alienating your fan base by being a total jobs worth on the forums, and to think I used to defend your game on steam forums saying you'd make good on all the things wrong with SoTS2. Ha more fool me right cause you just left SoTS2 to rot blamed every one but yourselves, you lied when you asked people to buy your indie titles cause you'd use the cash flow to finish the game.

Maybe a year+ away from these forums was a good thing cause I can't say i've ever upset some one by offering them support.... oh wait you just want me to pony up money and if i say i don't like the retro style games i'm just trolling or picking a fight? Grow up man I was a potential custom you know the kind of person who pays money for things I want and if I don't like things I wont buy them but hey i'm wrong your right we must all by shit we don't want ... I have some gravel in my drive way i could sell you some, oh you don't want or need it well you must be wrong.
Kill one man it is murder kill one million it is a statistic

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Mecron
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Re: Please stop creating SotS2 business threads

Post by Mecron » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:55 pm

sigh...no your are not a potential customer nor did anyone say you were bad, in fact people were told to stop hassling you. You are someone expressing their best wishes by announcing lack of support and when no one is impressed you start going off on how evil we are and begin trolling the tech support forums. You even had to necro a topic to get it rolling. Seriously dude..How does that even work? Does that sound convincing at all?


Here...let me try an example of how we here on Earth express good wishes..

"Hey Bob! Heard you are having a new kid! Best of luck!"


Did you kind of see how that works? I wanted Bob to know I wished him luck and that I was thinking of him. Did you see how I didn't keep talking about how his other kids were kinda ugly by my tastes or that I really didn't feel like going to their birthday parties? Cause that DETRACTS from the message that I want to convey. You see, this way Bob just says "Aww thanks!" and the conversation is over. The only downside, I guess is that I don't get to pretend to be offended while I go off on how I don't think bob mows his lawn to my satisfaction and that I have always suspected he is a communist.

Now you go back to your first post while keeping my example in mind and see where you may have gone off the tracks just a little if your only intent was to spread good cheer ;)


K, thnx, Bye!




And for the record, sots2 support went on for a long time and as long as possible and proceeds from the Pit went to pay for that work. In fact some viking guys once said...

"having logged 780 hours playing SotS2 since i've had it I would say it is a very good game and has almost unlimited replayablity, the learning curve can be very tricky if your new to this game. When it first came out it was almost unplayable but now it's stable and reciving polish it gets better all the time, that said it can be a very frustrating game and there are some areas that need work like the AI but on the whole it is good fun. "

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VikingDream
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Re: Please stop creating SotS2 business threads

Post by VikingDream » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:15 am

Yeah i said I know your not going to finish the game for what ever reason and that was sad...

I like 4X games, RTS, TBS and space combat sims over games like The Pit and ground pounders and it was sad you had to move away from doing 4X games. I also said that it made sense to keep cash flow ticking over.... so what was so bad about that?

I then closed with.

'I wish you all the best in your future projects with indie games.'

So your point is what? I can only wish you well if I like rouge like games and want to give you cash for them? OR that even if i don't like them I should buy them any way and hope you go back to making 4x games? Never mind that I bought a product that wasn't finished and I supported that game and waited a long time for it to be finished...which I might add it isn't.

Sorry I don't buy into the whole our publish is the big bad wolf thing frankly its just business they invested in a project that tanked and they want(ed) to recover as much of their lose as possible can you blame them?

I myself was thankful i got some decent play time out of the game but a lot of those first 800ish or so hours were basically beta testing and sending in bug reports ect maybe if steam early access had been around then .... but i'm getting off or maybe on topic now.

I came back to boards after not playing the game for a year to see the game was in the much same state i'd left it last update was November 2013(according to steam), so all the talk and promises to finish the game, iron out the last few kinks and add the missing features were just not done but that's cool it's not my product or my pride it's yours at the end of the day if you're happy with the games state so be it.

That same person also said this.

'SotS prime is a very good game and that took a lot of polish to get that way given time this game will be much better IMHO.'

If SoTS2 had been finished it would have been far better then SotS prime, sots prime got the polish it needed while sots2 didn't. So i recommended that person try sots prime before even considering buying this, the idea was that while they played prime Sots2 would have be patched to a better state or so I thought. So Quote parts of my old posts if you like by all means but don't take them out of context.

And with that i bid you good night.
Kill one man it is murder kill one million it is a statistic

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Mecron
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Re: Please stop creating SotS2 business threads

Post by Mecron » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:07 am

"Honey I totally support you wearing those ugly pants and while I never really believed your stories of abuse I am totally in your corner. Oh by the way, should you recover and get hot again with the support of others in the future, I will be totally back to reap the benefit of it."

I can see feeling that way but I can't really for the life of me understand why you would say it out loud. Sorry dude, but there has to be some sort of difference between the response you get for that sort of thing and what people get showing support day in and out get. Which brings me all the way back to explaining my first comment...

...when there is a sots3 and folks are grooving on it...I will be pretty thrilled that guys like Zed, and Zanz and Blue and a ton of others are out there playing it because it will be partly due to their support and input. Your post just made me feel pretty much "meh". Sorry if that wasn't your intent but that was what you achieved.

And with that clarified, forsootheth night hast falleneth and sleeping times cometh and may thouest have a goodeth one.

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VikingDream
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Re: Please stop creating SotS2 business threads

Post by VikingDream » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:52 pm

Mecron wrote:"Honey I totally support you wearing those ugly pants and while I never really believed your stories of abuse I am totally in your corner. Oh by the way, should you recover and get hot again with the support of others in the future, I will be totally back to reap the benefit of it."


I could reply in like manner by stating you promised me a lot but you basically lied I gave you my trust my respect and had faith in you but that is gone now.

If you were a woman you'd be the kind that promises the world but leaves you broken hearted and bitter after you've found out what shes really like you feel cheated and lied and manipulated.

You'd make a guy feel like it was his fault you'd had some bad times before he'd even met you, you'd be so bitter and twisted that even when people were being supportive you'd see them as a threat and push them away.

I'd also tell you I'm not to blame for how you think or feel, if you carry that stuff around with you that's on you nobody else. Then again this is not a woman/loved one its a game
development studio and image and consumer trust go a long way.

The CEO of Paradox at least had the balls to say they fucked up with this title(interview with angry Joe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiGZZ3QDth4 ) and they owned their part in the mistakes made can you say the same for your part in it?

Now I'm not the only person who feels this way but I am vocal in saying it's a shame you seem to have lost your mojo in terms of 4x games if and when you find that mojo again i'll be more then happy to pony up hard cash for games/content I feel i'd enjoy.

Until then it's hardly my fault your products don't even remotely appeal my tastes and what you've basically replied is that if I don't buy you current games i'm not supporting you and as such not worthy of playing any games which may later appeal to my tastes.

I can see you've read something into my comments that was not intended which is a shame, people are still asking if the game is going to finished/fixed because they actually still see the potential in this title.

Is it still even worth reporting bugs? or asking for tech support when things don't work as intended? Saying that i think I know the answer to that already.

Now if we are done reading between the lines good luck with your indie games I wish every success with them and I hope one day you make some games like sots2 only better cause we all want bigger, better faster and more sparkly.

Until then TTFN
Kill one man it is murder kill one million it is a statistic

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zanzibar196
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Re: Please stop creating SotS2 business threads

Post by zanzibar196 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:33 pm

VikingDream wrote:So your point is what? I can only wish you well if I like rogue-like games and want to give you cash for them?


Wait a minute... say... WHAT?!?!?!? Last time I checked, since going full indie kerberos has released not only a rogue-like game, but also a turn based strategy game like panzer general (we call it ground pounders), and soon to release an evil scientist type game (not even sure what genre that fits into!) called Kaiju-a-gogo... and there's been some movement on Northstar where it's SLOWLY getting off the back burner... and well, that's a space trading type game... so... one rogue, which turns out to be extremely popular, and several other titles to get excited about... nope, sorry... don't see your point here, dude.

[edit]Oh, and let's not forget the late, great Fort Zombie here... which, could spawn Fort Zombie 2... I'd kinda like to see a Kerberos version of Dead State combined with Neo Scavenger.[/edit]
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Re: Please stop creating SotS2 business threads

Post by ZedF » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:08 pm

My suggestion: Viking is thinking more about his hurt feelings on account of being called out for bad manners and less about reacting in an appropriate and sensible fashion, so he won't get that message. It's time to park this and move on.
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VikingDream
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Re: Please stop creating SotS2 business threads

Post by VikingDream » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:57 pm

ZedF wrote:My suggestion: Viking is thinking more about his hurt feelings on account of being called out for bad manners and less about reacting in an appropriate and sensible fashion, so he won't get that message. It's time to park this and move on.



Yes yes my feeling that must be it i must be really upset because i don't like retro games I like bad manners good band by the way.

As for appropriate and sensible they are very subjective terms, i've been civil and replied in kind in the manner in which i've been spoken too.

Now if sharing an opinion or criticism causes offence so be it i'm big enough to own my mistakes, if you really want to continue seek offence when none was given so be it that's not on me.

I was once called a fan boy for what ever reason guess i'm no longer a part of that club.
Kill one man it is murder kill one million it is a statistic

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Mecron
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Re: Please stop creating SotS2 business threads

Post by Mecron » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:21 pm

omigod... Zed is trying for a SECOND time to get everyone to just let this go! And you STILL try to last word him? WTH?!!

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Resok
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Re: Please stop creating SotS2 business threads

Post by Resok » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:18 pm

To be clear on the whole Paradox 'owned up to it' part - all they did was cut their losses and walk away. Yeah they admitted they released the game half-baked (a fact that most of us already understood if you've been following these boards). Sure they 'gave away' the End of Flesh expansion as a parting gift but they did nothing to contribute to the ongoing fixes for SOTS2 post-launch. Conveniently enough they only admitted their part in the whole debacle over 2 years after it happened and the dust had mostly settled. They were quite happy letting Kerberos take the blame for it all without lifting a finger.

It was Kerberos who put in the time and effort to fix the game post-launch without any assistance from Paradox. Are there still outstanding issues? Sure.

Kerberos very early on (while Paradox remained conveniently silent) owned up to the whole debacle claiming full responsibility and both demonstrated and stated their intent to fix the game.

See the following post from the WAYYYY back machine:

http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22033#p342722

Mecron wrote:Welcome to the perfect storm of cockup made up of 40% Murphy's Law, 30% Chaos, 20% Overambition and 10% wishful thinking. And you have our deepest regrets for what it is worth as none of this was part of the plan.

I am tempted to go into full blown explanations but a) that starts to smack of making excuses and b) in reality I think the biggest things on people's minds right now judging from your posts is "Who's responsible?!!" and "What's going to be done?!!" And even when its time for explanations I am sure you would all rather hear about it in the context of "How this won't happen again".

That latter question is an easy one and best gotten out of the way quickly. "Who is responsible?"...I am. Half my job at Kerberos is to be the one that makes the hard call.


Regardless the harsh business reality of it is Kerberos currently gets *zero* money from SOTS2 sales. I'm certain that Kerberos would love to continue fixing SOTS2, but without enough funding coming in from external sources (like Paradox actually putting their money where their mouth is) then to do so is simply going to run their company into the ground.
- Resok

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Erinys
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Re: Please stop creating SotS2 business threads

Post by Erinys » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:51 pm

Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread, but everything that can be said about this subject has already been said. I will close it now, because "Please stop creating SotS 2 Business Threads" includes this one.

Thanks,

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