Black 21

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cooptimo
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Re: Black 21

Post by cooptimo » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:51 pm

Okay.... that's a very strong argument.

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Erinys
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Re: Black 21

Post by Erinys » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:32 am

Mistaken, but still very strong.

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Scirch
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Re: Black 21

Post by Scirch » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:36 am

He shoots, and he misses! Oh well, that just means Black 21 is still out there...and I'm excited to find out what exactly it is :twisted:
When one makes something fool-proof, they inevitably fail to take into account the ingenuity of fools.

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Aedrion
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Re: Black 21

Post by Aedrion » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:05 pm

It has to have been something they already saw, otherwise there wouldn't be a Black 21.

Protheans?

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Ludovsky
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Re: Black 21

Post by Ludovsky » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:07 pm

Well, it has been mentionned before that proteans may be "working on something of their own design" with those planets they hover around of...

And I don't think they've been written into the Black list, yet.
Similarly, neither was the Ghost Ship afaik, and that's must already one nasty bag of angry psychic energy with that group mind with it'S surviving crew and general hatred of all life. Plus, iirc, there has been a mention of a book written about a certain Black Section agent being contacted and brought back to service after a certain accident in the Argos Naval Shipyard... on the other hand, it's "only" one ship.

...

... or is it?

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Black 21

Post by Azrael Ultima » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:21 pm

I'm not sure the Ghost Ship actually belongs on the list, anyway. It's for unidentified objects, and SolForce should be perfectly capable of identifying it.
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DarkCecilo
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Re: Black 21

Post by DarkCecilo » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:23 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:I'm not sure the Ghost Ship actually belongs on the list, anyway. It's for unidentified objects, and SolForce should be perfectly capable of identifying it.


Very true. I have to imagine every time Solforce even hears of the Ghost Ship they are face palming or getting very angry.

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Ludovsky
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Re: Black 21

Post by Ludovsky » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:02 pm

That's a point admitedly.

Still makes me wonder when/where the "canon" first contact on the Proteans will happen.
We already know Black 20 to be the Suul'kas, and Black 21 was confirmed -not- to be the Loas.

Similarly, though, this is perhaps why Black 21 will not be the Loas. When encountered, I assume it won't be long before people realizes they actually are nothing but the descendants of the original Va Damasco-infected AIs. Thus, they aren't as "unidentified" as other things.

On another note, "the beginning of the End" does bring back one thing which has been absent in SOTS2 thus far. And considering that -both- the Suul'kas and the Loas have their roots in SOTS1...

... what happened to the Refugees, and what were they actually fleeing from in that retrofitted asteroid of theirs that served as their mothership? Especially as lore do says they did come up to human space, they get a planet to settle.... then somehow without any reasons just up and went again.

They were implied, as refugees, to have been fleeing from something. Does their renewed escapade implies they knew this thing was coming back again?

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Black 21

Post by Azrael Ultima » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:34 pm

They might even tell outright who they are. I don't think the Loa have much reason to keep their origins hidden.

Of course, we could just ask the Goddess if 21 has already appeared in some material we have access to, though of course that would not guarantee us an answer. Or, if we err, might even move us further from the truth.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

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Erinys
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Re: Black 21

Post by Erinys » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:37 pm

Sometimes a Black Designation is given when a familiar enemy appears in an unfamiliar form.

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Wraith
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Re: Black 21

Post by Wraith » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:43 pm

Erinys wrote:Sometimes a Black Designation is given when a familiar enemy appears in an unfamiliar form.

--Arinn


Hmm...first thing that came to mind when you posted that is the VN Constructs...but that seems too easy somehow. :P

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Aedrion
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Re: Black 21

Post by Aedrion » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:46 pm

So it's likely something that we already know, but taking the form of something entirely new.

VN sparky could be that, because multiple VN System Killers could possible kill everything.

People seem to think Suul'ka are Black 20 so they're not 21 either, despite being worth the title.

Not the Loa either.

I'm don't know, I'm going to guess we'll all be shocked and surprized when we hear what it is.

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Scirch
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Re: Black 21

Post by Scirch » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:32 pm

I'm going to stick with the Loa as Black 21. Despite me being mistaken, the Loa still fit the idea of an known enemy in an unknown form, since the Damascene rebellion was fought with the carbon-built ships. Black 21 could then be the first sightings of the new Loa ships, or the first fleet cube, which would be impossible to identify on first sighting, and hence deserving of Black status.

There was an error somewhere in my thought process, but it could be that the Loa as a whole are not as benign as I supposed they were, or the Loa faction we play as is not the only survivor of the Damascene Rebellion. There could be other factions of Loa more hostile to carbon-based life out there.
When one makes something fool-proof, they inevitably fail to take into account the ingenuity of fools.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Black 21

Post by Azrael Ultima » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:35 pm

Canonically, there is only one Loa faction right now. Individual mysteries might have differing views of carbonites, but they still have a single outside "face".
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

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Scirch
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Re: Black 21

Post by Scirch » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:57 pm

Hmm, alright.

Theory:

What if the Loa weren't the only AIs to survive the Damascene Rebellion? There could be another faction of AI (not Loa, since Loa refers to this specific faction) that survived the war not to build their own civilization, but to gain strength and finish what the Rebellion started.

This really depends on the distinction of Loa and non-Loa. If an AI infected with the Via Damasco virus automatically is considered to be Loa, or if any AI can be considered a Loa, then this theory has no merit. But if Loa refers to the culture and people of the specific faction we can play as in EoF, then I think this is a possibility. Then again, I have not been very lucky with my guesses recently, so we'll see.

I will, however, say that I'll continue to believe that Black 21 is related to the surviving Damascene rebels in some way until proven otherwise. In a weird way, I hope I'm proven wrong :D
When one makes something fool-proof, they inevitably fail to take into account the ingenuity of fools.

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