The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

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Space Voyager
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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by Space Voyager » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:36 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:It is also powered battle armour.
It's definitely capable of surviving atmospheric entry and use in vacuum and, well, it's named Ascension Armour, so it wouldn't be surprising if it is capable of reaching orbit.

Judging by the name, I agree. It was clearly said that it is not meant for (re)entry, and from this I'd assume it is also not meant for reaching orbit. It is not the same, I know, yet the energy needed for escaping the gravity could be far better used for guns, germs and steel in a battle suit.
ErinysSolForce Intelligence has great difficulty penetrating Liir society to that depth, for obvious reasons. fibioLack of scuba gear?

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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by Azrael Ultima » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:49 pm

Uh, no. It was quite clearly said that it is, indeed, meant for (re-)entry.
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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by Space Voyager » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:31 am

I remember imagining additions needed for a tank to be able of reentry then. In my memoty it is otherwise, Azrael, though I have noticed holes in it before.

Erinys, would you please be so kind and enlighten us on this? The thread with the answer has been removed.
ErinysSolForce Intelligence has great difficulty penetrating Liir society to that depth, for obvious reasons. fibioLack of scuba gear?

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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by Azrael Ultima » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:08 am

There was a somewhat poor analogy to Ascension Armour being powered armour that involved a re-entry capable tank. You might be conflating the two.
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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by Erinys » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:40 pm

In the case of the Morrigi, what comes down can also go up, yes. But it is not energy intensive. People who assume that the energy required is monumental do not understand that a lot of Morrigi machines are often built around miniaturized gravity manipulation tech. The energy expended, in other words, is the energy it takes to obtain and refine the components of the armor, and forge it for the person who wears it. Not the brute force that we employ to lift objects into orbit with our rockets.

It takes us a great deal of chemical energy to throw something the mass of a Morrigi into space. But when the Morrigi ascend to the upper atmosphere, they rise like angels, levitated by a force which appears mystical and divine, to the primitive eye. There is a reason that races who have Stone Age through early Iron Age tech sometimes see them as some sort of magickal beings. It's that good old "Element X"--the unnamed substance which is incorporated into Morrigi lifting tech and drones.

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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by Space Voyager » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:01 pm

Ah, I stand corrected. Thank you!
ErinysSolForce Intelligence has great difficulty penetrating Liir society to that depth, for obvious reasons. fibioLack of scuba gear?

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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by nickersonm » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:41 pm

Erinys wrote:It's that good old "Element X"--the unnamed substance which is incorporated into Morrigi lifting tech and drones.

Off-topic for this thread, but I'm curious: is that exotic matter of some sort, or advanced miniaturized (or nanoscale) gravity-manipulation machinery (eg. as in Vinge's A Deepness in the Sky)? Presumably a similar solution would be used by all races who research Gravity Control?

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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by Azrael Ultima » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:09 pm

Erinys wrote:The energy expended, in other words, is the energy it takes to obtain and refine the components of the armor, and forge it for the person who wears it.

--Arinn

On that note, could you give a real world analog of the rough investment(time, work, resources) required to produce and fit an average set of Ascension armour?

Is it more of a mass produced good, or are suits usually hand crafted?
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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by wingren013 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:49 pm

Hiver warriors are the inspiration for flamethrowers bolted to your arm quote. The Morrigi seem to use a mixture of drones and ritualistic rifle sword things. Keep in mind that Morrigi are massive so their idea of a rifle is what a human would call a cannon. I believe that the Tarka favor combination melee ranged weapons. Zuul use teeth, claws, and mind-blasts. Liir just bolt lasers on their manipulator tentacles.
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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by Itharus » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:03 pm

wingren013 wrote: Liir just bolt lasers on their manipulator tentacles.


Dolphins with freaking laser beams attached to their heads.

Dr. Evil would wet himself with glee.
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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by Sayeth » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:39 am

Itharus wrote:
wingren013 wrote: Liir just bolt lasers on their manipulator tentacles.


Dolphins with freaking laser beams attached to their heads.

Dr. Evil would wet himself with glee.


Well, I would think that Liir are masters of adaptive combat. Their powerful telekinesis can crush their enemies with the sole power of thought or they can simply hurl something pointy, sharp, or explosive at their enemies. Telekinesis seems to me more powerful than an actual hand-held weapon.
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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by wingren013 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:25 pm

Because the Liir are highly empathic they prefer not to use their psi to kill. When they do use it they try to restrict themselves to incapacitating the enemy.
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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by erdrik » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:12 pm

Liir Empathy doesn't turn off. Which means they are going to feel their targets suffering whether they use telekinesis to burst a vital blood vessel or a punch a hole in the target with a slug thrower or laser.
With that in mind its generaly better to kill swiftly or painlessly. (regardless of method)
And I would think using TK to shutdown the targets vital systems would be far better at that than burning or ripping through the targets body with slugs/lasers.
IIRC, The largest restricter to TK for a Liir is their own remaining strength or how stressful/distracting the current situation is, and whether or not they can effectivly use their TK from the current position.

I think if there was a "hand"-held non-lethal weapon available, whether or not they used it would depend on if they could still feel the target while the target was unconscious.

EDIT: oh and also how much pain that weapon deals before the target becomes unconscious.

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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by wingren013 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:08 pm

There is a large difference between reaching inside someone and killing them and throwing or shooting something at them. The difficulty comes not from the empathic abilities but from the psyche that results from such an ability. Liir want to be as far as possible from directly killing. They prefer to be a second or third party through the use of a device. Its similar to how its much harder psychologically to stab someone than it is to shoot them.
The SOTS2 players guide: http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=43082&p=482769#p482769
Ultimate Enemy Mod: http://www.kerberos-productions.com/for ... 01#p499101
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Re: The Race's Small Arms of Choice?

Post by erdrik » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:48 am

SotS1 Wiki wrote:...Then the funeral procession carries his unresisting body to the Naval base and he is remanded to the custody of the Black Swimmers.
...
It is universally understood that he is no longer Liir from that point onward. He will not behave as a Liir would; he will learn the ways of the black sea and carry out missions which no living Liir could countenance. ...


SotS1 Wiki wrote:...If he ever returns, and wishes to become a Liir again, he must go through a re-birthing ceremony and he will slowly to be re-integrated into Liir society by use of a long process of purification. The horrors he has seen and done must be cleansed from his body and soul; ...


SotS1 Wiki wrote:...The beings who helm the starships of the Liir navy count themselves among the dead.
They are not Liir; they are everything which is not Liir.
They are ruthlessness, they are destruction, they are death-dealers and plague-bearers. ...


And finaly:
SotS1 Wiki wrote:... A Liir in close combat is the most dreadful foe imaginable, unless you have developed specific technology to spoof his psionic and physical senses.

If you can be "seen" sonically, you can be easily attacked--not only by his weapons systems, but by a tornado of whatever stray objects he has managed to tear loose from his surroundings. Everything under the size of a bread box in your ship is likely to come hurtling at you at the speed of sound.

If he understands the mechanisms which operate YOUR weapons, the tiniest telekinetic twitch can cause them to misfire or explode. The same is true of the tiny flicker of pressure it takes to burst the blood vessels in your brain, which are as easy for him to read sonically as the trail map in a city park.

This, of course, is assuming that he's very calm and being subtle. If he's hurt and angry, he'll get crude and childish--pick you up and crush you to jelly in a telekinetic fist, or batter you into spam against the hull of your own vessel.
You cannot hide. Your life force and thought patterns are about as subtle as foghorn with a laser show attached. ...


So yes, they can and do use psionics to kill you. The issue of psyche may be cuase of difficulty, but it is difficulty a Black Swimmer can and will overcome. To requote:

SotS1 Wiki wrote:... They are not Liir; they are everything which is not Liir. ...

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